[sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words

Tue May 18 01:52:02 EDT 2021

Hi Jeff,

Regarding the „reader“ concept - what I am planning as interlinear function in Ezra is essentially a „master/detail“ view. The master is the regular list of verses and the detail is a separate box where you see interlinear details for the currently selected verse. But if you do not want to see it you would be able to hide that component.

Regarding web browsers and performance … I would argue that if you target slow devices, native apps may give you a better performance than what e.g. Cordova has to offer. Cordova uses a web view (essentially an embedded web browser).

The „slowest“ device that I am using to test Ezra is a Nexus 7 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_7_(2013)) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_7_(2013))>.

This device works alright with the Cordova Webview in Ezra as well as Bishop. But in any case native apps are still faster I feel.

Best regards,
Tobias

> Am 17.05.2021 um 09:14 schrieb Jeff Becker <jbecker at fiveviews.com>:
> 
> All
>  
> Thank you for the interest and feedback.  I sent some screenshots yesterday in an e-mail that I originated.  Last I heard it needed to be approved by an email admin but I haven’t heard anything since.  I won’t duplicate it unless I hear back that it won’t be sent to the mail list, then I’ll do a reply with the screenshots. BTW, when you do see those shots they’re outdated already.  I moved things around in the banner.
>  
> The links that you sent (below) are similar to other things that I’ve seen in the past.  Bishop has some interesting features that would be great to have while studying.  I’ll take a closer look.  Another app that I ran across a while back does have a click/hover banner display similar to what I had already developed before I ran across that information.  I wasn’t able to download, install or test because, if I remember correctly, it required a desktop app or a significant amount of resources on the mobile device.
>  
> I’m very committed to the ‘reader’ concept rather than a parallel or interlinear layout because, well, my brain cheats.  I want the availability of help and more information but I want to work at translating it on my own before using the help.  My personal goal is to someday learn to read and translate without help. I figure if the Lord sent a personal letter to me (as He did to all of us) I should be able to read it without having someone else read it to me (as in ‘translation’). It’s for my own personal edification but it’s important to me.  
>  
> Another important goal (for me) is to keep this as lightweight as possible so that it can be used on old, slow devices with limited resources (memory, storage, cpu). I want it to be available for use in areas of the world where people can’t afford the latest and greatest devices.  Web browsers seem to be the way to approach the application to meet that goal. I’ve done a lot of work in client/server applications but have never had anything as ubiquitous as a Web browser to use for in content delivery.
>  
> On a technical note, browsers implement css fairly consistently (but not perfectly).  Installed apps vary by the runtime environment which can be significantly different not only in a different OS but also within the same OS across devices (depending on the hardware and the carrier/phone company).  Using css I was able to get the consistency I wanted by using only the :active parameter rather than :hover.  It works for touch devices and also gives a mouse click capability and the mousedown allows me to move the pointer over the banner where I’ve set the :hover to keep it available for a click (e.g. to get strongs page or parsing information). So I click on a word and while holding the mouse button down I can move to the part of the banner that has a link or a tooltip with more information.  I also don’t like a lot of flashing on the screen as the pointer moves around so I find hover to be annoying and distracting, but that’s just a personal preference.
>  
> Sorry so long winded.  I’ll stop for now.  Screenshots are coming.
>  
> Jeff 
>  
>  
> From: sword-devel [mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>] On Behalf Of Loren Burkholder
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 1:23 PM
> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words
>  
> As a side note, Apple has removed such functionality from its devices since some years ago: https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-discontinues-3d-touch-iphone-11-replaces-with-haptic-touch-2019-9 <https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-discontinues-3d-touch-iphone-11-replaces-with-haptic-touch-2019-9>
> From: sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>> on behalf of Tobias Klein <contact at tklein.info <mailto:contact at tklein.info>>
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:26:17 PM
> To: sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org> <sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>>
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words
>  
> Good idea regarding the pressure-sensitive touch reaction :)
> 
> When doing a quick search I found this JavaScript library: https://pressurejs.com <https://pressurejs.com/>
> I quickly tested it on my Android tablet and it seems to work well! Maybe I'll make use of this in the future.
> 
> Tobias
> 
> On 5/16/21 6:44 PM, Michael H wrote:
>> Tobias, (all)
>> 
>> I don't do mobile development, so if this is beyond the realm of easy implementation... ignore it. 
>> 
>> The limitation of android apps in this area has always been lack of pointer... which turns into mistaps (mostly caused by fingers 3x th size of the target). I'd like to see pressure sensitive touch which would work like the 'hover' functionality in Bibletime... a light touch would pop out a box with essential part of the definition, and a more firm touch then opens the full definition either in the main window or a sidebar like area. It's not exactly like the hover in BT, but touch sensitivity enabled provides a pretty close functionality. Again, I know most androids now have pressure sensitivity built in... but I don't know if it's easily accessible as just a tap. 
>> 
>>  
>> On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 10:30 AM Tobias Klein <contact at tklein.info <mailto:contact at tklein.info>> wrote:
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>> 
>>> I am still planning to develop that interlinear functionality that I wrote about in February, I have not started yet ... but will soon.
>>> 
>>> The interlinear visualization used by BibleHub is actually nice! I could imagine to do something similar in Ezra Bible App.
>>> 
>>> I am currently not targeting mobile use with Ezra, but certainly tablets (Windows and Android) and the user interface is also touch-based. In the future we may see an iPad version as well.
>>> 
>>> You already find a strongs dictionary functionality in Ezra, similar to what other frontends are doing, with the typical mouse-over strongs-word / dictionary update. But that only works on the desktop due to the mouseover limitation.
>>> 
>>> Focussing more on being touch-friendly is one of my goals for new functionality in Ezra. In fact, for me personally my Android tablet has become the primary device for this software ... at least for casual study.
>>> 
>>> I'd also be curious to see screenshots of your work!
>>> 
>>> I'll be keeping you posted whenever I have something ready to try. I am personally not a Greek/Hebrew expert, but nevertheless I enjoy some tool-based original language study. I'd be happy about getting feedback from users like you in the future!
>>> 
>>> Blessings,
>>> Tobias
>>> 
>>> On 5/15/21 10:23 AM, Jeff Becker wrote:
>>>> Tobias (et al),
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve been developing and using (for my own personal edification) a Greek/Hebrew reader that responds to touch/click with English translation, Strong’s numbers (with links) and a parsing code (gender, number, case, person, etc.) 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve decided to either find something that meets my growing needs or make it. But to do so requires data.  The current version is based upon a reformatting of a free interlinear using C#, JavaScript, HTML5 and T-SQL (MSSQL). 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> If you’re working on one I’d like to discuss joining our efforts if our goals are compatible.  Otherwise, I’m looking at the possibility of using the resources available through the SWORD project as a basis for my efforts.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> My goals are (in no particular order):
>>>> 
>>>> -          An easy to use phone, tablet and desktop app (already in current version)
>>>> 
>>>> -          Touch/click responses by displaying various information (lexicography, parsing) (already in current version)
>>>> 
>>>> -          Ability to select various reading plans such as canonical order, Daniel Wallace’s One Year reading plan, chronological based on writing (already in current version)
>>>> 
>>>> -          Stored bookmarks (client and server storage shared across individual user’s computers) (already in current version)
>>>> 
>>>> -          Derived words in common language such as transliterations as a memory reinforcement tactic (eg. ‘geo’ – ‘graphy’);
>>>> 
>>>> -          Ability to substitute other languages for English translations / transliterations;
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I can’t post a link here because I haven’t received permission or reuse the source material (BibleHub’s Greek-English and Hebrew-English Interlinear).  I am currently the only person using it.  I’ve done so to avoid any ethical or legal infringement on the source material.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> If you or anyone else reading this are interested in working together I’d be happy to share my relevant code and experience.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Jeff Becker
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: sword-devel [mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>] On Behalf Of Tobias Klein
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:44 AM
>>>> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
>>>> Subject: [sword-devel] English transliteration of Greek or Hebrew words
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I am planning an interlinear view component for Ezra Project and as part of that I would like to show English transliterations of Greek or Hebrew words.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I found these JavaScript/TypeScript based packages, which could be useful:
>>>> https://github.com/charlesLoder/greek-transliteration <https://github.com/charlesLoder/greek-transliteration>
>>>> https://github.com/charlesLoder/hebrew-transliteration <https://github.com/charlesLoder/hebrew-transliteration>
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Do you know of any other solutions out there?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Tobias
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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