[sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)

Mon May 11 09:33:13 MST 2020

I agree on your suggestion, i will convert my data to any approved format.

I found numerous mapping errors with Synodal and now realize that is it
impossible to check v11ns without reference texts (sword modules). So if it
is possible please choose existing sword modules each cannon you would like
me to check. Nrsv - as well.

For KJVA i use KJVA, for Synodal - RusSynodal, last have almost full
coverage but Ps.114.9.

Feel free to make audio conference with me if you found this possible (i
still have poor language skills but talk rarely with other people)

Blessings

вс, 10 мая 2020 г. в 21:58, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe �� crosswire.org>:

> Right, there are currently no mappings in sword-tools.  This is where we
> traditionally have kept our versification definitions, which I believe is
> shared between SWORD and JSword.  We have tools to check and convert these
> data files to our respective requirements in our software:
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/
>
> My suggestion was for us to eventually, if we can agree on a mapping
> definition format, to keep those somewhere near the versification mappings,
> for sharing in the same way.
>
> Troy
>
>
> On 5/10/20 11:30 AM, Костя Маслюк wrote:
>
> Sorry I do not remember all details of previous discussions, I have seen
> some text data with verse to verse mappings on last discussions, but I cant
> remember where. I would be happy if we approve cannon definition with
> mappings that is appropriate for JSword, for Sword cannon_*.h files ill be
> generated from them anyway, I would write such python converter or process
> existing data to that format.
>
>
>
> Could you point me where sword-tools contain mapping definitions, I do not
> see.
>
>
>
>
>
> Blessings.
>
>
>
> *From: *Troy A. Griffitts <scribe �� crosswire.org>
> *Sent: *10 мая 2020 г. 20:53
> *To: *SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel �� crosswire.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)
>
>
>
> Applied.  Thank you Костя!
>
> Do you remember if there was a particular obstacle preventing us from
> sharing mapping data between SWORD and JSword.  It's been so long and I
> wasn't deeply involved in those discussion.  It sure would be nice to keep
> these these mapping definitions in sword-tools in some format from which
> both SWORD and JSword can generate their necessary data structures.
>
> Blessings.  Hope you've been well.
>
> On 5/10/20 9:23 AM, Костя Маслюк wrote:
>
> Hi! All cannon files you mentioned are used to know, the only case is
> nrsva that was not finished probably because base v11n, nrsv was left for
> testing. I will review that v11ns again, in month or two.
>
>
>
> By the way I see following patches not applied.
>
>
>
> And it will be super helpful if someone point me the texts best to
> compare, for base v11n I use KJVA, but I do not sure about text to use for
> NRSVA (NRSV too)
>
>
>
>
>
> Blessings
>
>
>
> *From: *Troy A. Griffitts <scribe �� crosswire.org>
> *Sent: *6 мая 2020 г. 22:28
> *To: *sword-devel �� crosswire.org; Костя Маслюк <kostyamaslyuk �� gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)
>
>
>
> Dear John, Jamie, and Костя,
>
> First, I want to say that DM Smith has also a versification mapping
> implementation in JSword, which was, and likely still is a foundational
> part of STEP.  I don't know if STEP uses JSword's versification mapping
> facility or if it implements its own.  There were collaboration efforts
> around July 2014 to get SWORD and JSword to use the same data sources, but
> I am not sure how that ended up.
>
> I don't remember all the details of Костя's representation for a mapping
> system, but we pushed pretty hard to have it handle most all scenarios and
> doing a quick search it looks like Костя and others have built mappings for
> these systems:
>
> [scribe �� localhost include]$ grep -l mapping sword/include/canon*
> canon_calvin.h
> canon_darbyfr.h
> canon_nrsv.h
> canon_segond.h
> canon_synodal.h
> canon_vulg.h
>
> If you are familiar with mapping systems (and it sounds like John and
> Jamie all are) and have a look at the mapping data in any of the above
> files as examples, I am sure you will understand how Костя is representing
> data for his implementation.
>
> All this to say, it would be really great if any of you might be
> interested in contributing mapping data to our other supported
> versification systems which don't yet have the mapping implemented:
>
> [scribe �� localhost include]$ grep -L mapping sword/include/canon_*
> canon_abbrevs.h <- ignore this one
> canon_catholic2.h
> canon_catholic.h
> canon_german.h
> canon_kjva.h
> canon_leningrad.h
> canon_luther.h
> canon_lxx.h
> canon_mt.h
> canon_nrsva.h
> canon_null.h
> canon_orthodox.h
> canon_synodalprot.h
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/
>
> It would be a blessing to me and everyone who uses the engine.
>
> Serving together,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 5/6/20 10:20 AM, John Dudeck wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I have done quite a bit of content development for Logos, including Bibles
> that had versifications that did not fit any existing schemes in Logos.
>
>
>
> Logos uses "verse maps", which are xml files that specify the mapping of
> every verse in a particular versification to every verse in each other
> versification. If a particular whole book matches the versification of some
> other existing versification, the verse map for that book can simply
> reference the existing versification. In use, the software is also able to
> infer mappings when going between two versifications that aren't referenced
> directly.  The verse maps have to be validated before they are
> incorporated, to avoid conflicting mappings.
>
>
>
> The verse maps can handle such things as verses that are split differently
> in different versifications, and the headings in Psalms.
>
>
>
> The downside of their system is that the verse maps have to be
> hard-compiled into a release of the software. They are not pluggable. I
> think pluggable verse maps is on their list of enhancements, but as far as
> I know the feature has never been developed. Maybe they aren't smart enough
> to figure it out. I don't know that I could figure it out either.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tobias,
>
>
>
> Remember that any libraries for STEP Bible would likely be oriented
> towards JSword rather than SWORD per se.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 17:04, Tobias Klein < contact �� tklein.info > wrote:
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
>
>
> Thanks. I had a look at the data, that’s quite complex! Even a bit
> intimidating ...
>
>
>
> I suppose STEPBible has some library functions that parse this data?
>
> Can you point me to any APIs?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tobias
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 06.05.2020 um 15:04 schrieb Jamie < araj �� critos.co.uk>:
>
>
>
> Hi Tobias,
>
>
>
> Not sure that this exactly answers your question, but just in case it’s
> relevant, Tyndale House have various public domain information available,
> including material on alternative versification schemes.  The
> reversification material gives details of how to map LXX, MT and Vulgate
> schemes on to NRSVA (and also addresses some other schemes which are
> perhaps less frequently encountered).  It also caters for common variants
> which basically follow one of these schemes, but which have certain verses
> split up into subverses.  You can find the data at :-
>
>
>
>
> https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt
>
>
>
> If you do want to make use of it, I’d be very happy to try to answer any
> questions.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> ARA “Jamie” Jamieson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tobias Klein [ mailto:contact �� tklein.info <contact �� tklein.info> ]
> *Sent:* 05 May 2020 21:19
> *To:* SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum < sword-devel �� crosswire.org >
> *Subject:* [sword-devel] Versification Mapping
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to ask a question that I was planning to ask for a while
> already ...
> What's the recommended solution of mapping different versification systems?
>
> And what working implementations for this are already out there?
>
> I realize that my understanding of versifications has been a bit limited
> and that's visible in Ezra Project's implementation of the mapping. I am
> currently only differentiating between two versification systems, namely
> the English versification (used in most/all (?) English translations) and
> the Hebrew versification (used in most modern German translations).
>
> It's been a few years since I looked into this and I think this has been
> my source (SBL Handbook of Style)
>
> https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false
>
> My current approach in Ezra Project to map between English and Hebrew
> versification is the following:
>
> ·         I use "absolute verse numbers" in each book.
>
> ·         I have mapping tables that basically define offsets for the
> "absolute verse numbers" (see implementation  here
> <https://github.com/tobias-klein/ezra-project/blob/master/models/versereference.js#L177>
> ).
>
> ·         The versification (currently only English or Hebrew) of the
> respective translation is detected based on some simple dynamic tests when
> opening it.
>
> ·         I have functions to convert between one and the other "absolute
> verse numbers" based on the mapping.
>
> ·         Verse Reference objects are stored both with the English and
> Hebrew absolute verse numbers and these objects are used for assigning
> tags, notes, etc.
>
> This works fairly well when using English translations and German
> translations. The result is for example that tags that were assigned to
> verses of an English translation still show up correctly for the verses in
> a German translation. This is particularly visible in Psalms.
>
> How flawed is my current approach described above?
> How do other frontends do it?
> Have there been plans to somehow integrate some sort of mapping
> functionality into the SWORD engine?
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
>
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>
>
>
> John Dudeck
>
> Programmer at Editions Cle                             Lyon, France
>
> john.dudeck �� sim.org                            john �� editionscle.com
>
> --
>
> "The best time to be alive is when things look the worst." -- Dale Losch
>
>
>
>
>
>
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