[sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)
Troy A. Griffitts
scribe at crosswire.org
Sun May 10 10:52:35 MST 2020
Applied. Thank you Костя!
Do you remember if there was a particular obstacle preventing us from
sharing mapping data between SWORD and JSword. It's been so long and I
wasn't deeply involved in those discussion. It sure would be nice to
keep these these mapping definitions in sword-tools in some format from
which both SWORD and JSword can generate their necessary data structures.
Blessings. Hope you've been well.
On 5/10/20 9:23 AM, Костя Маслюк wrote:
>
> Hi! All cannon files you mentioned are used to know, the only case is
> nrsva that was not finished probably because base v11n, nrsv was left
> for testing. I will review that v11ns again, in month or two.
>
>
>
> By the way I see following patches not applied.
>
>
>
> And it will be super helpful if someone point me the texts best to
> compare, for base v11n I use KJVA, but I do not sure about text to use
> for NRSVA (NRSV too)
>
>
>
>
>
> Blessings
>
>
>
> *From: *Troy A. Griffitts <mailto:scribe at crosswire.org>
> *Sent: *6 мая 2020 г. 22:28
> *To: *sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>;
> Костя Маслюк <mailto:kostyamaslyuk at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)
>
>
>
> Dear John, Jamie, and Костя,
>
> First, I want to say that DM Smith has also a versification mapping
> implementation in JSword, which was, and likely still is a
> foundational part of STEP. I don't know if STEP uses JSword's
> versification mapping facility or if it implements its own. There
> were collaboration efforts around July 2014 to get SWORD and JSword to
> use the same data sources, but I am not sure how that ended up.
>
> I don't remember all the details of Костя's representation for a
> mapping system, but we pushed pretty hard to have it handle most all
> scenarios and doing a quick search it looks like Костя and others have
> built mappings for these systems:
>
> [scribe at localhost include]$ grep -l mapping sword/include/canon*
> canon_calvin.h
> canon_darbyfr.h
> canon_nrsv.h
> canon_segond.h
> canon_synodal.h
> canon_vulg.h
>
> If you are familiar with mapping systems (and it sounds like John and
> Jamie all are) and have a look at the mapping data in any of the above
> files as examples, I am sure you will understand how Костя is
> representing data for his implementation.
>
> All this to say, it would be really great if any of you might be
> interested in contributing mapping data to our other supported
> versification systems which don't yet have the mapping implemented:
>
> [scribe at localhost include]$ grep -L mapping sword/include/canon_*
> canon_abbrevs.h <- ignore this one
> canon_catholic2.h
> canon_catholic.h
> canon_german.h
> canon_kjva.h
> canon_leningrad.h
> canon_luther.h
> canon_lxx.h
> canon_mt.h
> canon_nrsva.h
> canon_null.h
> canon_orthodox.h
> canon_synodalprot.h
>
> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/
>
> It would be a blessing to me and everyone who uses the engine.
>
> Serving together,
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 5/6/20 10:20 AM, John Dudeck wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I have done quite a bit of content development for Logos,
> including Bibles that had versifications that did not fit any
> existing schemes in Logos.
>
>
>
> Logos uses "verse maps", which are xml files that specify the
> mapping of every verse in a particular versification to every
> verse in each other versification. If a particular whole book
> matches the versification of some other existing versification,
> the verse map for that book can simply reference the existing
> versification. In use, the software is also able to infer mappings
> when going between two versifications that aren't referenced
> directly. The verse maps have to be validated before they are
> incorporated, to avoid conflicting mappings.
>
>
>
> The verse maps can handle such things as verses that are split
> differently in different versifications, and the headings in Psalms.
>
>
>
> The downside of their system is that the verse maps have to be
> hard-compiled into a release of the software. They are not
> pluggable. I think pluggable verse maps is on their list of
> enhancements, but as far as I know the feature has never been
> developed. Maybe they aren't smart enough to figure it out. I
> don't know that I could figure it out either.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tobias,
>
>
>
> Remember that any libraries for STEP Bible would likely be
> oriented towards JSword rather than SWORD per se.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 17:04, Tobias Klein <contact at tklein.info
> <mailto:contact at tklein.info>> wrote:
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
>
>
> Thanks. I had a look at the data, that’s quite complex! Even a bit
> intimidating ...
>
>
>
> I suppose STEPBible has some library functions that parse this data?
>
> Can you point me to any APIs?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tobias
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 06.05.2020 um 15:04 schrieb Jamie <araj at critos.co.uk
> <mailto:araj at critos.co.uk>>:
>
>
>
> Hi Tobias,
>
>
>
> Not sure that this exactly answers your question, but just in case
> it’s relevant, Tyndale House have various public domain
> information available, including material on alternative
> versification schemes. The reversification material gives details
> of how to map LXX, MT and Vulgate schemes on to NRSVA (and also
> addresses some other schemes which are perhaps less frequently
> encountered). It also caters for common variants which basically
> follow one of these schemes, but which have certain verses split
> up into subverses. You can find the data at :-
>
>
>
> https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt
>
>
>
> If you do want to make use of it, I’d be very happy to try to
> answer any questions.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> ARA “Jamie” Jamieson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tobias Klein [ mailto:contact at tklein.info ]
> *Sent:* 05 May 2020 21:19
> *To:* SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <
> sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org> >
> *Subject:* [sword-devel] Versification Mapping
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to ask a question that I was planning to ask for a
> while already ...
> What's the recommended solution of mapping different versification
> systems?
>
> And what working implementations for this are already out there?
>
> I realize that my understanding of versifications has been a bit
> limited and that's visible in Ezra Project's implementation of the
> mapping. I am currently only differentiating between two
> versification systems, namely the English versification (used in
> most/all (?) English translations) and the Hebrew versification
> (used in most modern German translations).
>
> It's been a few years since I looked into this and I think this
> has been my source (SBL Handbook of Style)
> https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false
>
> My current approach in Ezra Project to map between English and
> Hebrew versification is the following:
>
> · I use "absolute verse numbers" in each book.
>
> · I have mapping tables that basically define offsets for
> the "absolute verse numbers" (see implementation here
> <https://github.com/tobias-klein/ezra-project/blob/master/models/versereference.js#L177>).
>
> · The versification (currently only English or Hebrew) of
> the respective translation is detected based on some simple
> dynamic tests when opening it.
>
> · I have functions to convert between one and the other
> "absolute verse numbers" based on the mapping.
>
> · Verse Reference objects are stored both with the English
> and Hebrew absolute verse numbers and these objects are used for
> assigning tags, notes, etc.
>
> This works fairly well when using English translations and German
> translations. The result is for example that tags that were
> assigned to verses of an English translation still show up
> correctly for the verses in a German translation. This is
> particularly visible in Psalms.
>
> How flawed is my current approach described above?
> How do other frontends do it?
> Have there been plans to somehow integrate some sort of mapping
> functionality into the SWORD engine?
>
> Best regards,
> Tobias
>
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>
>
>
> John Dudeck
>
> Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France
>
> john.dudeck at sim.org
> <mailto:john.dudeck at sim.org>
> john at editionscle.com <mailto:john at editionscle.com>
>
> --
>
> "The best time to be alive is when things look the worst." -- Dale
> Losch
>
>
>
>
>
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