[sword-devel] LXX Strongs & Morphology

[Dudeck, John]

> JSword allows the setting of a Greek Mophology module. It doesn’t use the work given in the morph or lemma attributes. Forked XST can provide a different mechanism.

Ok so this answers why Packard seems to be ignored. But the question remains why LXX does not display the Morphology, whereas TR does.

John

> — DM Smith
> From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections.
>
> > On Feb 7, 2019, at 3:26 PM, pierre amadio <amadio.pierre at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there !
> >
> > I find it strange that the LXX module tells it is using packard's
> > morphological code.
> >
> > Earlier in 2018, I started to use the LXX module (Version 2.5) and
> > installed the Packard module as well.
> > Then, i realised that the tool I was using gave me a lot of wrong information.
> >
> > The error were visible with diatheke as well, so it was not a bug in
> > the frontend i was using:
> >
> > $ diatheke -b LXX -o avm -f PLAIN -k Gen 1:1
> > Genesis 1:1: εν (PREP) αρχη (N-DSF) εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S) ο (T-NSM) θεος
> > (N-NSM) τον (T-ASM) ουρανον (N-ASM) και (CONJ) την (T-ASF) γην (N-ASF)
> > (LXX)
> >
> > θεος (N-NSM) is obviously nominative, however asking for the packard
> > key gives vocative as a result.
> >
> > $ diatheke -b Packard  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
> > : Part of speech: noun, indeclinable proper noun Case: vocative
> > Number: singular Gender: neuter
> >
> > Looking at εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S), it tells me it is a passive pluperfect 3s...
> >
> > Now, for the same codes, the robinson module gives result thats looks correct:
> >
> > $ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
> > : * Part of Speech *: Noun
> > * Case *: Nominative
> > * Number *: Singular
> > * Gender *: Masculine
> > (Robinson)
> >
> > $ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k V-AAI-3S
> > : * Part of Speech *: Verb
> > * Tense *: Aorist
> > * Voice *: Active
> > * Mood *: Indicative
> > * Person *: third
> > * Number *: Singular
> > (Robinson)
> >
> > I do not know if this is related to your problem, nor why LXX is
> > mentionning packard in the morph code tag, but it could be interesting
> > to see what happen if you try to use the Robinson module instead of
> > the Packard one.
> >
> >> On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 at 20:41, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Further info:
> >>
> >> I dumped the LXX and TR modules using mod2imp.
> >>
> >> 1) I see that the LXX morphology uses the module packard. So I downloaded packard from Crosswire.
> >>
> >> 2) I see that those words that do not have a Strongs number have the morphology duplicated in the Strongs field (!!!) So in Malachi 1:1 you can see for the first word it shows:
> >>
> >> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w>
> >>
> >> which is wrong!
> >>
> >> $$$Malachi 1:1
> >> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w> <w lemma="strong:G3056" morph="packard:N-GSM">λογου</w> <w lemma="strong:G2962" morph="packard:N-GSM">κυριου</w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">επι</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-ASM">τον</w> <w lemma="strong:G2474" morph="packard:N-PRI">ισρα·»</w> <w lemma="strong:G1722" morph="packard:PREP">εν̼̯ͷ> <w lemma="strong:G5495" morph="packard:N-DSF">ǵ¹ρι̼̯ͷ> <w lemma="strong:G32" morph="packard:N-GSM">±³³µ»ου̼̯ͷ̾ <w lemma="strong:G846" morph="packard:D-GSM">±ÅÄ¿υ̼̯w> <w lemma="strong:G5087" morph="packard:V-AMM-2P"̾θεøµ</w> <w lemma="strong:G1211" morph="packard:PRT"̾δη̼/w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">µÀ¹̼̯ͷ̠̾<w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-APF">ıÂ</ͷ̠̼̾ͷ lemma="strong:G2588" morph="packard:N-APF">º±Á´¹±Â̼̯ͷ̠̼̾w lemma="strong:G5216" morph="packard:P-GP">żɽ</ͷ̾
> >>
> >> A quick regular expression shows that there are 30512 words where the strongs number has morphology in the field out of 475348 total words.
> >>
> >> 3) The morphology field is not being displayed by AndBible. Only Strongs is being displayed. I see no differences in the tagging syntax used.
> >>
> >>
> >> The mods.d/lxx.conf and tr.conf files both contain:
> >>
> >> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISStrongs
> >> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISMorph
> >> Feature=StrongsNumbers
> >>
> >> So I don't understand why one displays the Morphology codes and the other does not.
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>> The behavior in AndBible for the LXX is rather odd. It doesn't matter where you look in the text,
> >>> the symptoms appear the same everywhere.
> >>>
> >>> When you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it displays the Strongs numbers, BUT for those
> >>> words where there is no Strongs, it displays a Morphology code. As David mentions, in Mal 1:1, it
> >>> shows N-NSN for the first word, and Strongs numbers for the rest of the words in the verse.
> >>>
> >>> If you open the display menu (three dots menu), Strongs and Morphology are both checked. If you
> >>> uncheck Morphology, nothing changes in the display. If you check Morphology and uncheck
> >>> Strongs, all of the Strongs disappear, and no Morphology codes are displayed. If you then touch
> >>> 'nnnn' again, it displays Strongs, but in the display menu Strongs is unchecked and Morphology is
> >>> checked but grayed out.
> >>>
> >>> If you touch a Strongs number, it displays the entry as expected. If you touch a Morphology code
> >>> (eg. N-NSN as above), it looks up the word 'N-NSN' in Strongs Hebrew and displays the entry
> >>> 3476 Naasson. If you touch 'V-PAPRP', it displays entry 3578 xenia from Strong's Greek.
> >>>
> >>> By comparison with the TR Textus Receptus, when you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it
> >>> displays the Strongs number followed by the Morphology (with no space between). You can touch
> >>> the number and it brings up the Strongs entry from Strongs Greek. You can touch the Morphology
> >>> and it brings up the Robinson's codes. If you open the display menu and uncheck Morphology, it
> >>> shows only the Strongs numbers. However you cannot display Morphology if Strongs is not
> >>> displayed.
> >>>
> >>> I would assume that the behavior of the display menu in AndBible is an AndBible issue, and it's
> >>> not really a problem, just a minor logic bug. But the inability to display Morphology in LXX is an
> >>> issue.
> >>>
> >>> I imagine this could either be addressed in AndBible, or in the LXX source. Is Tuomas reading
> >>> this, or do I need to write him separately?
> >>>
> >>> Where do I find the LXX source? Maybe this is something that can be corrected fairly easily.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>> LXX installed in PocketSword can display both or either.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are some tagging errors such as the one I spotted in the first word of Malachi 1:1
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve not looked at more than one location before responding on whether the 2 features work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Could it be AndBible or did you perhaps sample a location with many more tagging issues?
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 01:19, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
> >>>> Greetings.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've just tried loading the LXX in AndBible. Supposedly it has both Strongs numbers and
> >>>> Morphology tagging. But in AndBible it only displays Morphology when there is no Strongs
> >>>> number on a given word. And in that case it tries to look up the Morphology in Strongs. In
> >>>> Xiphos you can see where there is no Strongs number in those cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> By the way I am using our own French version of Strongs. Is the morphology lookup
> >>>> supposed to be in Strongs for LXX? With the Textus Receptus it needs Robinson's module.
> >>>>
> >>>> In contrast the Textus Receptus displays both Strongs and Morphology.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does this mean there is a tagging problem in the LXX? Or is it an AndBible/Jsword
> >>>> problem?

John Dudeck
Programmer at Editions Cle                             Lyon, France
john.dudeck at sim.org                            john at editionscle.com
--
"Waiting on God requires the willingness to bear uncertainty, to carry within
 oneself the unanswered question, lifting the heart to God about it whenever
 it intrudes upon one's thoughts." -- Elisabeth Elliot

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