[sword-devel] LXX v11n issues

Sun Jan 7 02:18:43 MST 2018

Cyrille,

Further thoughts...

One kludgey way forward is to build two LXXM modules.

1. With Joshua-A, Judges-A, etc.
2. With Joshua-B, Judges-B, etc

The .conf files About would each need to refer to the other module.

NB. SWORD does not allow a hyphen in a module name, but the low line _ is a valid character.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 09:06, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> Cyrille,
>
> Even if you build the module from IMP using imp2vs, any duplicated verses will be overwritten by the occurrence in the second instance.
>
> The module would thus lose content that exists in the source text.
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
> On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 07:33, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Le 06/01/2018 à 21:19, David Haslam a écrit :
>>
>>> Now that you understand that, does this change anything regarding the proposed three new catholic lit av11ns ?
>>
>> No because for the Catholic we have not to do a "compromise" of different version, all version are the same.
>>
>> For LXX, I don't understand exactly what to do with the LXXM.imp file. For this reason  I propose to create a new module with all the LXX books from Rahlfs version (Or you can give me the way to use the LXXM.imp :) ). If someone desire to have the Strong and Morpho he can still install the "old" module.
>> After, if someone can add to the new LXX osis file, strong and he can use this new source file.
>>
>>> Best regards, David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 20:09, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 20:51, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Cyrille,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you taking into account my comment about our v11ns being supersets from multiple Bibles and the comments at the beginning of the LXX v11n?
>>>>
>>>> No sorry I missed it! Ok it's clear. I understand well.
>>>>
>>>>> // This is a compromise versification system, intended to allow encoding of Bibles using a number of slightly varying LXX-based versification systems. In particular, it was produced in consultation with OTs:
>>>>> // Rahlfs', Swete's, Tischendorf's, & Thomson's editiNOtions
>>>>> // R. H. Charles' & James H. Charlesworth's anthologies of Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha
>>>>> // Henry E. J. Howard's Pentateuch and R. R. Ottley's Isaiah translations from the LXX
>>>>>
>>>>> // In addition to the LXX OT, the GNT has been included in this system to facilitate production of modern Bibles such as the OSB, which are translated from the LXX but include the NT as well. The following NTs were consulted in producing this versification system:
>>>>> // Antoniades' Patriarchal GNT and its translation, the EOB
>>>>> // the NKJV (OSB NT) & NRSV translations
>>>>>
>>>>> // All of these Bibles & texts should be accomodated by this versification definition without requiring that any extra verses be appended; as a consequence, no Bible will include every verse of this system.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/06/2018 12:47 PM, Cyrille wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 20:13, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These v11ns are not in the sources because we are still researching.  But since these have been double checked to printed editions,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the printing edition!! And this report is about the printing edition, not about the doc file. But the doc file correspond exactly to the printing edition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I highly doubt whatever 'errors' you see are actually errors in the v11n, but rather a bad source text.  I am sorry for speculating, but I know these v11ns were checked and verified by a second individual against a printed edition and also know there is a ton of low quality texts online which claim to be things which they are not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The check was not good done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are simply my suspicions without having the time now to put in the research.  I hope you find a way to check and confirm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I can confirm this :
>>>>>> The current canon_LXX.h and the LXX,rahlfs.h don't match with the printing edition, I have with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Troy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/06/2018 12:06 PM, Cyrille wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 18:36, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Cyrille,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just did a brief diff between the canon_lxx.h and the canon_lxx-super.h I sent you in my previous email, and the differences don't look like anything useful.  I must be mistaken about what this file is.  Have a read of the comments in the file I send and those in the canon_lxx.h included in 1.8.0.  They are very similar, but the *-super.h v11n includes this comment near the end of the header:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "This is not intended for critical editions that separately encode variant traditions of Joshua, Judges, Tobit, etc. that are already served by the Rahlfs versification system (q.v.)."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not sure to what the "Rahlfs versification system (q.v.)" refers, nor the /quod vide/ at the end of the reference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I could possibly refer to the analysis of Rahlfs in the LXX v11n folder I send to you earlier, specifically here, but I am not sure:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/lxx_v11ns/canon_rahlfs.h
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question is why this v11n are not in the sources? And I compare the Rahlfs.h, it's not good... still a lot of issues. I ready to perform it. Please let me know the good way to help.
>>>>>>>> But it clear for me that for the current source I have, it's not possible to use the current LXX v11n.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I do not see any accommodation for alternate traditions in there.  I may need to go search old emails to dig up the discussions on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Troy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 01/06/2018 09:36 AM, Cyrille wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 17:16, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Cyrille,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just a few comments which I hope will clear up a few things.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The sword-tools SVN repo needs to be checked out to your computer before you can run the convert.sh for CCAT. The repo contains the .jar file you asked about. You cannot just download the individual convert.sh script.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ok It's clear. I need to clone it with hg? The user is this from the automatic email send? If it is this email I can't find it again :-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SWORD versifications are often a superset for multiple Bibles. The SWORD engine provides a facility for frontends to easily skip empty entries. Thus, when you discover that a chapter here or a chapter there has too many verses, it is probably that way to support another Bible which has more verses for that chapter.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LXX v11n has been researched extensively by Chris and others. There are many issues regarding the LXX which are not easily resolved, e.g., Rahlfs providing two textual traditions of the same book in parallel with different versifications. I h research for LXX in general can be found here:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/lxx_v11ns/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK but what to do?? Is it possible to use the Rahlfs with osis2mod? Because Rahlfs is not the current one. I have the Rahlfs text. If I use the current LXX v11n with my text I will have really a lot of issues!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Troy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On January 6, 2018 9:01:01 AM MST, Cyrille [<lafricain79 at gmail.com>](mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Before to work on a new module for the LXX, I decided to verify the
>>>>>>>>>>>> current LXX v11n. And what was my surprise discovering many errors!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please can you give me the list of the current modules using LXX v11n?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will propose a new with correction, some books give me worries, like
>>>>>>>>>>>> Esther, which contains a versification in letter, I will make you a
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal once my verification is finished. I work with the A. Rahlfs
>>>>>>>>>>>> (maybe the current LXX v11n was made with an other ?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, Br Cyrille
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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