[sword-devel] Module .conf files, Unicode Normalization

Sat Jan 6 14:43:28 MST 2018

Thanks David, DM.

Tom Sullivan
info at BeForgiven.INFO
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On 01/06/2018 04:20 PM, DM Smith wrote:
> The purpose of normalization was for the sake of search. Only when the 
> search index and the search request are normalized to the same form can 
> a result be found.
> 
> It doesn’t matter if the normalized form is not readable. If SWORD (or 
> JSword) normalizes both the same, then it doesn’t matter what Unicode 
> Normalization or lack of it is used for displaying the text.
> 
> Assuming that SWORD (or JSword) handles search properly, the only 
> advantage of canonical over decomposed in the module itself is space.
> 
> In Him,
> DM
> 
>> On Jan 6, 2018, at 2:26 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com 
>> <mailto:dfhdfh at protonmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Good question, Tom.
>>
>> Assuming that the Latin script part of the source text actually 
>> required normalization to NFC,
>> and that at least some of the Biblical Hebrew should not be converted 
>> to NFC,
>> you'd build the module using the -N switch of osis2mod, after first 
>> applying a script
>> to the source text to ensure that both the requirements were implemented.
>>
>> It would be a very simple task for a bespoke TextPipe filter with a 
>> restrict filter
>> designed to limit the Convert to NFC subfilter to the text that was 
>> not Hebrew.
>>
>> Ignoring alphabetical presentation forms, all the Hebrew characters 
>> are in one Unicode block.
>> A PCRE to exclude the Hebrew would be very simple.
>> I could almost do it in my sleep after 17 years using TextPipe.
>> No doubt other programmers could do likewise with Perl or Python, etc.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 19:14, Tom Sullivan <info at beforgiven.info 
>> <mailto:info at beforgiven.info>> wrote:
>>> Y'all: For text, such as in a commentary, which includes both Hebrew 
>>> and English (or another modern Latin script using language), what do 
>>> you put for the normalization? Tom Tom Sullivan info at BeForgiven.INFO 
>>> <mailto:info at BeForgiven.INFO> FAX: 815-301-2835 --------------------- 
>>> Great News! God created you, owns you and gave you commands to obey. 
>>> You have disobeyed God - as your conscience very well attests to you. 
>>> God's holiness and justice compel Him to punish you in Hell. Jesus 
>>> Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead as a 
>>> substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell. If you 
>>> repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ, you 
>>> will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell. Warning! Good works 
>>> are a result, not cause, of saving trust. More info is at 
>>> www.esig.beforgiven.info <http://www.esig.beforgiven.info> Do you 
>>> believe this? Copy this signature into your email program and use the 
>>> Internet to spread the Great News every time you email. On 01/06/2018 
>>> 12:32 PM, David Haslam wrote: > Hi Greg, > > One area where it might 
>>> turn out to be useful is for the search features > of front-end apps. 
>>> > It could be important to know that the underlying module text is 
>>> _not_ > *NFC*. > > That's not to lay down a requirement as to how 
>>> search features should be > designed, > but at least to provide the 
>>> information in case it does matter for some > types of search option. 
>>> > > Like other things in .conf files, a key can also be 
>>> _educational_. > It may prompt developers and users to ask, /*Why did 
>>> they do this?*/ > > cf. It was _almost by accident_ that in 2014, I 
>>> first came across this > aspect of using Unicode for Biblical Hebrew. 
>>> > /It applies only to texts with _both_ vowel accents and 
>>> cantillation./ > > Even though it's mentioned in our developers' 
>>> wiki, it's all too easily > missed by other CrossWire volunteers. > > 
>>> Best regards, > > David > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. > >> 
>>> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] 
>>> Module .conf files, Unicode Normalization >> Local Time: 6 January 
>>> 2018 5:19 PM >> UTC Time: 6 January 2018 17:19 >> From: 
>>> greg.hellings at gmail.com <mailto:greg.hellings at gmail.com> >> To: David 
>>> Haslam , SWORD Developers' >> Collaboration Forum >> >> Why would the 
>>> front end or engine need to know this information? Would >> it help 
>>> the front end developers or users to know it? What do we gain >> by 
>>> adding this? (I'm not implying it wouldn't be beneficial. But the >> 
>>> only thing I know about Unicode is how the different UTF encodings >> 
>>> work, so I have no idea what use this information could be. I also >> 
>>> think changes to formats and information standards should be >> 
>>> conservative instead of liberal) >> >> --Greg >> >> On Jan 6, 2018 
>>> 11:01, "David Haslam" > > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> We've known 
>>> for quite a few years that there are aspects of >> *Biblical Hebrew* 
>>> that mean we should _avoid_ converting the >> Unicode source text to 
>>> *NFC* when we build a module. >> >> This prompts me to suggest that 
>>> we ought to define a new *key* for >> .conf files. >> >> 
>>> *Normalization=NFC* (this would be the default, and may be >> 
>>> _omitted_ for the vast majority of modules) >> *Normalization=Custom* 
>>> (we should include this in certain Biblical >> Hebrew modules) >> >> 
>>> This would make it clear to front-end developers and users alike >> 
>>> that the source text was _not_ converted to NFC during module build. 
>>> >> i.e. *osis2mod* was used intentionally with the *-N* switch, in >> 
>>> _accordance with the requirements of the source text provider_. >> >> 
>>> The Unicode source text may already be encoded in *UTF-8* ; this >> 
>>> memo is /only /about normalization. >> >> In the rare eventuality 
>>> that there could arise a requrement for >> any of the other three 
>>> normalization forms (*NFD*, *NFKC*, *NFKD*) >> defined by the Unicode 
>>> Consortium, >> these would also be permitted values for the conf file 
>>> key. >> >> A further benefit arises when a module needs to be 
>>> updated. >> If the modules team sees that the .conf file includes the 
>>> line >> *Normalization=Custom* >> they would be forewarned against 
>>> converting to NFC through >> /inadvertently/ omitting the *-N* switch 
>>> during module build. >> >> _Aside_: Another language with a need for 
>>> non-standard >> normalization is *Tibetan*. We don't yet have a 
>>> module in that script. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent 
>>> with ProtonMail Secure Email. >> >> >> 
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