[sword-devel] More French questions
David Haslam
dfhdfh at protonmail.com
Fri Dec 22 06:56:55 MST 2017
Just commenting on one of the questions that came up in the thread.
Any such BHS module would require Versification=MT. The book order matches that of the MT.
Several Hebrew OT modules do not follow the MT book order.
Best regards,
David
Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] More French questions
> Local Time: 21 December 2017 11:11 PM
> UTC Time: 21 December 2017 23:11
> From: john.dudeck at sim.org
> To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>
> Dominique,
>
> Thanks for your response!
>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> I'm the author of the French versifications sheme, I'll do my best to to answer your questions.
>>
>> There are actually 3 French versification schemes available in Sword/JSword:
>> - Calvin (Bibles de Genève, Martin, Ostervald...)
>> - DarbyFr (Bible Darby)
>> - Segond (Bibles Segond)
>
> I created the Logos verse map for DarbyFR. It would be interesting to see how well ours agree :^)
>
> Do you know if Calvin is close to BHS - Bible Hebraic Stuttgartensia (or something like that)?
>
>> This a fresh addition, so you'll need to work with Sword >= 1.7.903.
>
> Ok. I've still got to find where to get it...
>
>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:45:38 -0500
>> "John Dudeck" <john.dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I am working on several commentaries in French for use specifically with AndBible. So far they seem to be working more or less.
>> >
>> > I am trying to figure out the correct way to set up French versification. Supposedly Jsword supports the French versifications, but I can't find any documentation on what they are. Do I need to pull the SVN and decipher the source code?
>>
>> No you don't, but if you want to, the v11n are described in include/canon_*.h files.
>> The French v11n are named canon_calvin.h, canon_darby.h, canon_segond.h.
>>
>> There is a small section on the wiki about the French versifications:
>> https://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Survey_of_versification_schemes_in_French_Bibles
>>
>>
>> > I have several commentaries based on the Louis Segond (LSG) versification.
>> > 1) do I need to put something in the OSIS tagging to indicate this?
>>
>> I don't think so. I don't do it. Please note that I'm not an expert in OSIS markup:)
>>
>>
>> > 2) what -v11n flag should I use for osis2mod.exe? Will that even work, considering the 1.7 version doesn't support French versifications?
>>
>> osismod.exe (>= 1.7.903) supports -v11n Calvin|DarbyFr|Segond
>>
>>
>> > 3) what Versification= should I put in mods.d/module.conf?
>>
>> You should put (case-sensitive):
>> Versification=Segond
>>
>>
>> > I have one commentary that is based on the Colombe Bible, aka Segond Revisée (SER). It has a lot of differences from KJV, LSG, DarbyFR, or Calvin. When I try to compile it with osis2mod, the linking hangs in the book of Joel, and I don't know if it is a problem with my annotateRef tagging or a problem with osis2mod not knowing what to do with the versification.
>>
>> The following wiki page lists the differences between the KJV and the Segond.
>> https://www.crosswire.org/wiki/V11n-fr-Segond
>
>> Although there are a lot differences mainly in Job, Psalms..., there
>> are none in the book of Joel. I guess there is maybe something wrong
>> in your encoding, not specifically the annotateref tag.
>
> But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and has 4 chapters.
>
> I haven't yet pulled the canon_*.h files to see what is in them. Will do that soon.
>
> Below is an analysis of the Colombe versification compared to KJV and LSG. As you can see, the Colombe is different from everything else. It is a very popular translation. The French version of the Africa Bible Commentary uses Colombe. Colombe does not have apocrypha as far as I know.
>
>> Hoping that it will help you
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Dominique Corbex
>> --
>> <dominique at corbex.org>
>
> ==============================================================================================
> SER (Segond Révisée aka Colombe) versification & differences from KJV & LSG
>
> Please excuse the odd formatting -- the xml lines are excerpted from the Logos verse maps.
>
> In the following chart, the "alias" lines indicate which standard versification is used
> for that book. These may be BHS, NRSV, or LSG (Louis Segond).
>
> The expanded sections indicate differences between the KJV, LSG and SER. Any parts that
> do not have an expanded section are identical to both KJV and LSG.
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Genesis" />
>
> Exodus
> KJV LSG SER
> Ex 8.1 Ex 7.26 Ex 7.26 (LSG)
> : : :
> Ex 8.4 Ex 7.29 Ex 7.29
> Ex 8.5 Ex 8.1 Ex 8.1
> : : :
> Ex 8.32 Ex 8.28 Ex 8.28
>
> Ex 22.1 Ex 22.1 Ex 21.37 (LXX, BHS)
> Ex 22.2 Ex 22.2 Ex 22.1
> : : :
> Ex 22.31 Ex 22.31 Ex 22.30
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Leviticus" />
>
> Numbers
> KJV LSG SER
> No 16.36 No 16.36 No 17.1 (BHS)
> : : :
> No 16.50 No 16.50 No 17.15
> No 17.1 No 17.1 No 17.16
> : : :
> No 7.13 No 17.13 No 17.28
>
> No 26.1 No 26.1 No 25.19-26.1 (BHS)
>
> No 29.40 No 30.1 No 30.1 (LSG)
> No 30.1 No 30.2 No 30.2
> No 30.16 No 30.17 No 30.17
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Deuteronomy" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Joshua" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Judges" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Ruth" />
>
> 1 Samuel
> KJV LSG SER
> 1S 20.42a 1S 20.42 1S 20.42 (BHS)
> 1S 20.42b 1S 20.43 1S 21.1
> 1S 21.1 1S 21.1 1S 21.2
> : : :
> 1S 21.15 1S 21.15 1S 21.16
>
> 1S 23.29 1S 24.1 1S 24.1 (LSG, VUL)
> 1S 24.1 1S 24.2 1S 24.2
> : : :
> 1S 24.22 1S 24.23 1S 24.23
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="2_Samuel" />
>
> 1 Kings (=1R)
> KJV LSG SER
> 1R 4.21 1R 4.21 1R 5.1 (BHS)
> : : :
> 1R 4.34 1R 4.34 1R 5.14
> 1R 5.1 1.R 5.1 1R 5.15
> 1R 5.18 1R 5.18 1R 5.32
>
> 1R 22.43a 1R 22.43 1R 22.43 (LSG, VUL)
> 1R 22.43b 1R 22.44 1R 22.44
> 1R 22.44 1R 22.45 1R 22.45
> : : :
> 1R 22.53 1R 22.54 1R 22.54
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="2_Kings" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="1_Chronicles" />
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="2_Chronicles" />
> KJV LSG SER
> 2Chr 2.1 2Chr 2.1 2Chr 1.18 (BHS)
> 2Chr 2.2 2Chr 2.2 2Chr 2.1
> : : :
> 2Chr 2.18 2Chr 2.18 2Chr 2.17
>
> 2Chr 14.1 2Chr 13.23 2Chr 12.23
> 2Chr 14.2 2Chr 14.1 2Chr 14.1
> : : :
> 2Chr 14.15 2Chr 14.14 2Chr 14.14
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Ezra" />
>
> Nehemia
> KJV LSG SER
> Né 4.1 Né 4.1 Né 3.33 (BHS)
> : : :
> Né 4.6 Né 4.6 Né 3.38
> Né 4.7 Né 4.7 Né 4.1
> : : :
> Né 4.23 Né 4.23 Né 4.17
>
> Né 7.67 Né 7.67 Né 7.67a (BHS)
> Né 7.68 Né 7.68 Né 7.67b
> Né 7.69 Né 7.69 Né 7.68
> : : :
> Né 7.73a Né 7.73a Né 7.72
> Né 7.73b Né 7.73b Né 8.1a (VUL for 8.1 only)
> Né 8.1 Né 8.1 Né 8.1b
>
> Né 9.38 Né 9.38 Né 10.1 (BHS)
> Né 10.1 Né 10.1 Né 10.2
> : : :
> Né 10.39 Né 10.39 Né 10.40
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Esther" />
>
> Job
> KJV LSG SER
> Jb 38.39 Jb 39.1 (SVV) Jb 38.39 (KJV)
> Jb 38.40 Jb 39.2 Jb 38.40
> Jb 38.41 Jb 39.3 Jb 38.41
> Jb 39.1 Jb 39.4 Jb 39.1
> : : :
> Jb 39.30 Jb 39.33 Jb 39.30
> Jb 40.1 Jb 39.34 Jb 40.1
> : : :
> Jb 40.5 Jb 39.38 Jb 40.5
> Jb 40.6 Jb 40.1 Jb 40.6
> : : :
> Jb 40.24 Jb 40.19 Jb 40.24
> Jb 41.1 Jb 40.20 Jb 40.25 (BHS)
> Jb 41.8 Jb 40.27 Jb 40.32
> Jb 41.9 Jb 40.28 Jb 41.1
> Jb 41.10 Jb 41.1 Jb 41.2
> : : :
> Jb 41.34 Jb 41.25 Jb 41.26
>
> <alias versemap="LSG" name="Psalms" />
>
> Proverbs
> KJV LSG SER
> Pr 24.33 Pr 24.33 Pr 24.33a (custom)
> Pr 24.34 Pr 24.34 Pr 24.33b
>
> <alias versemap="BHS, KJV" name="Ecclesiastes" />
> KJV LSG SER
> Ec 11.9 Ec 12.1 Ec 11.9 (BHS, KJV)
> Ec 11.10 Ec 12.2 Ec 11.10
> Ec 12.1 Ec 12.3 Ec 12.1
> : : :
> Ec 12.8 Ec 12.10 Ec.12.8
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Song_of_Songs" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Isaiah" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Jeremiah" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Lamentations" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Ezekiel" />
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Daniel" />
> KJV LSG SER
> Dan 4.1 Dan 4.1 Dan 3.31 (BHS)
> : : :
> Dan 4.3 Dan 4.3 Dan 3.33
> Dan 4.4 Dan 4.4 Dan 4.1
> : : :
> Dan 4.37 Dan 4.37 Dan 4.34
>
> Dan 5.31 Dan 5.31 Dan 6.1
> Dan 6.1 Dan 6.1 Dan 6.2
> : : :
> Dan 6.28 Dan 6.28 Dan 6.29
>
> Osée (Hosea)
> KJV LSG SER
> Os 1.10 Os 2.1 Os 2.1 (LSG)
> Os 1.11 Os 2.2 Os 2.2
> Os 2.1 Os 2.3 Os 2.3
> : : :
> Os 2.23 Os 2.25 Os 2.25
>
> Os 11.12 Os 12.1 Os 12.1 (LSG)
> Os 12.1 Os 12.2 Os 12.2
> : : :
> Os 12.14 Os 12.15 Os 12.15
>
> Os 13.16 Os 13.16 Os 14.1 (BHS)
> Os 14.1 Os 14.1 Os 14.2
> : : :
> Os 14.9 Os 14.9 Os 14.10
>
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Joel" />
> KJV LSG SER
> Joel 2.28 Joel 2.28 Joel 3.1 (BHS)
> : : :
> Joel 2.32 Joel 2.32 Joel 3.5
> Joel 3.1 Joel 3.1 Joel 4.1
> : : :
> Joel 3.21 Joel 3.21 Joel 4.21
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Amos" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Obadiah" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Jonah" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Micah" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Nahum" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Habakkuk" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Zephaniah" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Haggai" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Zechariah" />
> <alias versemap="BHS" name="Malachi" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Matthew" />
>
> Marc
> KJV LSG SER
> Mr 1.44a Mr 1.44a Mr 1.44 (custom)
> Mr 1.44b Mr 1.44b Mr 1.45
> Mr 1.45 Mr 1.45 Mr 1.46
>
> Mr 9.50 Mr 9.50-51 Mr 9.50-51 (LSG)
>
> Mr 10.52 Mr 10.52-53 Mr 10.52 (KJV, NRSV)
>
> <versemap="NRSV" name="Luke" />
>
> Jean
> KJV LSG SER
> Jn 10.41 Jn 10.41 Jn 10.41a (custom)
> Jn 10.42 Jn 10.42 Jn 10.41b
>
> Actes
> KJV LSG SER
> Ac 7.59 Ac 7.59 Ac 7.59a (custom)
> Ac 7.60 Ac 7.60 Ac 7.59b
>
> Ac 19.40 Ac 19.40a Ac 19.40a (NA27)
> Ac 19.41 Ac 19.40b Ac 19.40b
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Romans" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="1_Corinthians" />
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="2_Corinthians" />
> KJV LSG SER
> 2Cor 13.12 2Cor 13.12a 2Cor 13.12a (NRSV)
> 2Cor 13.13 2Cor 13.12b 2Cor 13.12b
> 2Cor 13.14 2Cor 13.13 2Cor 13.13
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Galatians" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Ephesians" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Philippians" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Colossians" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="1_Thessalonians" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="2_Thessalonians" />
>
> 1 Timothée
> KJV LSG SER
> 1 Ti 6.2a 1 Ti 6.2a 1 Ti 6.2 (custom)
> 1 Ti 6.2b 1 Ti 6.3b 1 Ti 6.3a
> 1 Ti 6.3 1 Ti 6.3 1 Ti 6.3b
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="2_Timothy" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Titus" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Philemon" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Hebrews" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="James" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="1_Peter" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="2_Peter" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="1_John" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="2_John" />
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="3_John" />
> KJV LSG SER
> 3Jn 14a 3Jn 14 3Jn 14 (LSG, NRSV)
> 3Jn 14b 3Jn 15 3Jn 15
>
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Jude" />
> <alias versemap="NRSV" name="Revelation" />
> ==============================================================================================
>
> John Dudeck
> Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France
> john.dudeck at sim.org john at editionscle.com
> --
> "Tanzanian sign language for _coffee_ and _crucify_ are similar. "What did
> the crowd shout to Pilate?" a consultant asked. "I think they wanted
> coffee," one deaf person ventured. Does that help you pray for accuracy
> and clarity in translation?
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