[sword-devel] Av11n mark 2

Wed Jul 15 14:14:14 MST 2015

On July 15, 2015 4:29:24 PM EDT, "Troy A. Griffitts" <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>:) Hi Konstantin,
>
>You have to know when I say something like this, "We could build it,
>but
>I'm afraid it might actually get used," that I'm being mostly facetious
>though there is some true concern in what I am writing.  Of course I
>can
>see proper uses if the need arises.  I didn't think the Danish or
>French
>need was a good case for per-module versification.  Our path to support
>v11n mapping and optimization is to support major versification
>systems,
>one of which a module must identify itself with.  This optimizes key
>loading and allow a reasonable opportunity to map between known system.
> One disadvantage I tried to stress was specifically for your benefit.
>If a module does not associate itself with a supported versification,
>but instead supplied its own, then none of your v11n mapping code can
>currently be used with the module because we don't know anything about
>which v11n system it mostly follows.  Again, I am not against adding
>the
>feature, but only trying to avoid adding and using the feature for a
>use
>case which is better addressed with our currently methodology.  This
>might take longer to research v11n schemes for these regions, but then
>we can say we've done the research and when we add a v11n which
>supports
>the majority of Bibles in a region then we'll know which verses a Bible
>deviates at when it uses the system.  These are all good things.
>
>Anyway, GBS Bible support was never finished-- it was an experiment
>that
>turned out to point to a better solution-- and JSword does not
>implement
>it.  It should not be used-- at least right now.  And if we move
>forward
>with per-module v11n support, I think I mentioned that JSword might
>already have a file format they use.  I think an immediate need will
>probably push this forward beyond hypothetical talk.  Peter may have
>one, but I'd like to do some research before we say that all French
>Bibles are too crazy to ever define a (or a couple) standard
>versification systems.
>
>Hope this helps clear up,
>Troy
>
>
>
>On 07/15/2015 09:49 PM, Konstantin Maslyuk wrote:
>>> And it shouldn't be used. :)
>> 
>> It should not be used for one only purpose and we will reject a
>usefull
>> feature? :^S
>> 
>> Today we have years from new v11n appeared in Sword and most of
>> frontends be released with that v11n. Same for if error was in v11n.
>And
>> most annoying will be when we will release bug fixes for mapping
>data,
>> some old apps/some old platforms would never get such fixes.
>> 
>> It would be used for some rare texts. I did not meet such, but i
>count
>> if text (version) author intentionally change verse index, we have to
>> leave it, but correctly translate to other v11ns.
>> 
>> By the way v11ns for rare texts will be used by ~0,001% of users, 
>and
>> will be delivered to all. Isn't it better to store v11n in to those
>> one/two modules?
>> 
>> One can build own module repository with different v11ns, and it will
>be
>> compatible with all Sword apps.
>> It is just freedom that would bring unexpected good use cases , but
>we
>> suppress freedom for the sake of one bad.
>> 
>> Maybe there were another points, can't remember.
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> От: Troy A. Griffitts <mailto:scribe at crosswire.org>
>> Отправлено: ‎15.‎07.‎2015 14:19
>> Кому: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
>> <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> Тема: Re: [sword-devel] Av11n mark 2
>> 
>> Yeah, that doesn't help me either.  We abandoned GenBook Bible
>support
>> in favor of the VersificationMgr system.  I am not against adding a
>> per-module v11n mechanism, but I fear it will be used. :)  And it
>> shouldn't be used. :)  Using this basically allows people to take
>> shortcuts bypassing the analysis of the versification of their module
>> and trying to identify it most closely with a common v11n.  This is
>> important as it allow us to display the module with v11n mapping
>across
>> different systems.  We discussed ways one could also use the
>mechanism
>> appropriately: selected the closest common v11n and supplying
>mappings
>> for the verses which aren't covered by that v11n.  But my experience
>> would lead me to speculate that if we allow custom v11n, then
>everyone
>> will use it for their module-- even if there are only a couple
>> differences in v11n between their module and a common v11n system,
>> because they won't need to spend the time to analyze and learn about
>> their text and v11ns which we support well.  Allowing v11n loading
>per
>> module is fairly straightforward to implement and I believe JSword
>might
>> already have a file format they support.
>> 
>> Regarding this thread.  If we need to add 2 new v11ns for French and
>> Danish, then we need to spend the time to do the research and add a
>> versification and mapping data.
>> 
>> Troy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 07/15/2015 01:03 PM, DM Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 15, 2015, at 6:59 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <karl at kleinpaste.org
>>>> <mailto:karl at kleinpaste.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 07/15/2015 06:35 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>>>> 1) Unlike the other av11n implementation it does not yet show non
>KJV
>>>>> verse range content.
>>>> I'm confused. If genbook Bibles are essentially self-contained in
>>>> terms of v11n, how can a genbook Bible not display all its own
>content?
>>>
>>> I read Peter’s comment that it wouldn’t handle a verse range
>properly if
>>> one or both of the ends was not in the KJV versification.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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The use case that had me thinking more about this before I saw this thread is chronological v11n, since there is much debate as to the placement of, say, Job
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