[sword-devel] Updating copyrighted modules

Sun Jan 6 10:32:22 MST 2013

I guess this is going nowhere as so many discussions with you in the past.

1) If I mistakenly accused you of anything you have not done I am quite obviously very sorry. But so far it does not look that way, does it?

2) On the 5th of January at about 9 am GMT I sent you an email detailing the steps I took to verify that you are indeed distributing copyrighted modules, whether by accident or wilfully I did not hazard to guess.

This very detailed email was sent at roughly the same time as an email to list which gave the generic info. You should have it. In both places I asked you to take the server down and sort things. Instead of taking the server down you continued to run the server and claim you carefully vetted things that nothing was distributed which should not. By continuing with this claim, despite detailed info being sent personally to you and generic info on the list things did not get better.

Eventually you took this morning the repo down. I thanked you for that.

You still though have many other modules up for which you are essentially in the same position as you were with ours, unless you got explicit permissions.

Right now I drilled down through the IBT repo of yours with the browser and downloaded both several of the Adyge module files as also several conf files. The conf files also starkly declare the modules as copyrighted, at which point you would require a permission. If you have got one from IBT I am pleased for you. If not you got a problem. You would be then distributing illegally material owned by IBT. They might let you do so or they might pursue you. I simply warn you.

3) Wrt our rights - these are quite obviously not exclusive and you also quite obviously did not breach _our_ agreements. So there is little point to see our agreements with anyone. Your broke the law as you are not part of CrossWire and hence have no permission from anyone to publish  ISV or any other copyrighted and CrossWire restricted module I could download from your server. You also - and this is where we came in - sullied our reputation by your - however tenuous - association with us and by posting on our list links to your repos.

4) Wrt secret cabale - not so. The mailing list archive is public and it is entirely clear but to the dullest who is in charge and who is not. Your perception of having become a member of CrossWire 

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 10:21:41 -0500
> Von: Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com>
> An: Chris Burrell <chris at burrell.me.uk>, "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Updating copyrighted modules

> Yes, exactly Chris.
> 
> Both Chris and Peter have publicly accused me of breaking the law (thus
> tarnishing my reputation, and sullied my efforts to contribute).  This
> implies I've breeched the terms of Crosswire's licensing agreement with
> the
> ISV foundation as the Copyright owner.  What exactly is the agreement
> Crosswire's reached with the ISV Foundation, and what are its terms (since
> I've apparently broken them)?  Is Crosswire's legal right to distribute
> Copyright text on behalf of the ISV foundation even covered by a license
> agreement?  Does this agreement's terms extend to module developers who
> volunteer to assist, or not? If no such Licensing Agreement exists between
> the Copyright owner and Crosswire, I am not only innocent of the charges
> Peter and Chris have accused me of that I have broken some law,  I have
> been falsely accused (and my reputation sullied wrongfully), but those
> levelling accusations against me are hypocrites for accusing me of these
> things, while themselves making false claims.
> 
> Furthermore, if Crosswire itself doesn't have actual licensing agreements
> with the Copyright owners proving it possesses distribution rights, it
> doesn't in fact have legal right to distribute texts despite the licensing
> claim contained in the .conf files.  In this case it has no right to
> castigate me for believing such a permissions exists protecting Crosswire
> developers (and this is also plain hypocrisy). This same logic applies to
> all of the modules Crosswire claims exclusive rights to.   For each module
> this claim is made, licensing terms much exist or Crosswire is making
> false
> claims and arbitrarily using these false rights as a lever against module
> developers it finds less favourable.
> 
> Thought Peter has not yet explicitly specified module's I've 'distributed'
> that belong to Crosswire, which of these actually have these rights
> granted
> through a licensing agreement.  Does Crosswire in fact have exclusive
> right
> to distribute these texts (and deny others that right)?  Questions like
> these are addressed by making public the licensing agreements (perhaps in
> the wiki). I can't see any reason making such licensing agreements public
> is a bad idea.  It would only be a bad idea if Crosswire doesn't in fact
> have such agreements in place.  As I said previously, I can see lots of
> benefits (including exonerating my reputation from false claims of
> illegality, and character assassination).  If Crosswire is not willing to
> make pubic the agreements under which it operates, terms it claims grant
> it
> exclusive control over distribution of certain copyright texts it IS being
> secretive and arbitrary (Manfred).
> 
> ~A
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Chris Burrell <chris at burrell.me.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I think what Andrew meant by "secretive" is that there doesn't seem to
> be
> > an obvious documented place where there is a link between who owns the
> > relationship with the copyright holder, who generated the module in the
> > first place, and who if different is the person maintaining the module.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 6 Jan 2013 11:09, "Peter von Kaehne" <refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > Von: Manfred Bergmann <manfred.bergmann at me.com>
> >>
> >> > Am 06.01.2013 um 09:50 schrieb Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com>:
> >> >
> >> > >  The site makes it seem like anyone can contribute to module
> creation,
> >> > modification.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Anyone can contribute to module creation.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Manfred. Indeed, anyone can. We have hundreds of modules
> produced
> >> by dozens of contributors.
> >>
> >> What you can not do is publish on your own server what is licensed to
> >> CrossWire.
> >>
> >> What we do not want is that people interfere in existing relationships
> >> around existing copyrighted modules. Certainly not by breaching
> copyright
> >> and publishing such modules on their own server.
> >>
> >> Hardly secretive cabale...
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> >