[sword-devel] UI for Windows Question...

Jason Turner sword-devel@crosswire.org
Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:46:20 -0700 

I'm pretty sure that the .exe in question uses several DLL's that can be 
redistributed, I'm almost positive the Oracle's client installation uses 
Borland's JRE DLL implementation. I would say I am positive actually.


On Wednesday 12 March 2003 08:15 am, Chris wrote:
> Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
> >Have you tried to run this exe on a machine without a JRE?
>
> No, so maybe it is using the JRE behind the scenes.
>
> >On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
> >>Well I had a little Java swing program, about 5kb .jar file. And when I
> >>asked it to, JBuilder7 converted it into a .exe of about 70kb, that
> >>didn't appear to require the JRE. How it works I don't know, but it
> >>seems to work. There's also the option of Linux and Sun/Sparc native
> >>executeables.
> >>
> >>Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
> >>>Hi Chris,
> >>>I don't think JBuilder can produce executables (native). Actually,
> >>>no java app can be converted to an executable unless the executable
> >>>contains the whole JRE within. I am also using JBuilder from version 2
> >>>and I would agree that it's interface is quite good but still lacks
> >>>the native L&F. On the other hand, JBuilder is really faster than
> >>>other Java apps, an to be honest I have always wondered what Borland
> >>>has hacked into to make this happen, but I am sure that the code
> >>>that is produces is pure java classes with the usual behaviour.
> >>>
> >>>What I said is just an opinion though and a personal choice from
> >>>my experience until now. Remember, I am primary a Java programmer (I
> >>>have JBuidler in me screen as I write this e-mail, I am at work now)
> >>>but I still believe that java is (unfortunately) not the way to go for a
> >>>windows GUI.
> >>>
> >>>I am really new to this list/project so my opinion should not be
> >>>considered highly. I am happy though to participate in this
> >>> conversation. Thanks,
> >>>Costas
> >>>
> >>>On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
> >>>>I personally would sacrifice windows L&F for the cross-platform
> >>>> ability. Plus, JBuilder can produce native executables. I havn't tried
> >>>>benchmarking them,
> >>>>but I presume the JBuilder environment itself uses it, and it is very
> >>>>snappy.
> >>>>
> >>>>Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
> >>>>>Actually, my full time job is java dev and it is really my
> >>>>>favorite language for many reasons.
> >>>>>Well, the reason I would
> >>>>>not suggest java is because it is slow in the GUI, and does not
> >>>>> provide a real windows look and feel. All the Java GUI programs I
> >>>>> have used are indeed a bit slow and out of the windows feel. Also the
> >>>>> JVM is not standard within windows. It would have been much easier
> >>>>> for me to do my own work in Java (and I would have done in half the
> >>>>> time propably) but I think that every language is good at some stuff
> >>>>> and windows GUI is not what Java is for. I think that if you compare
> >>>>> a native win GUI with any Java GUI (look, responsiveness, etc) you
> >>>>> will agree that the diferrences are quite noteable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Costas
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
> >>>>>>Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
> >>>>>>>Some months ago I started on a software for personal use that would
> >>>>>>>help in bible study. Since my best knowledge is in Java (5 years
> >>>>>>> now) I started the implementation with it. Very soon I realized the
> >>>>>>> (obvious) fact that Java is NOT for the Desktop.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Why? My full time job is writing Java desktop (gui) software.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I thought of VB (where I also have
> >>>>>>>experience) but I quickly dropped the idea since the code it
> >>>>>>>produces is really slow. I ended up with Delphi (since it is really
> >>>>>>>easier than C++) and now i have made a first version of a windows
> >>>>>>>software for bible study. One of the reasons I didn't go with some
> >>>>>>>of the already existing software is because none of these are quite
> >>>>>>>good at searching/handling greek text (I am Greek) and none of these
> >>>>>>>had a modern Greek translation which is the one most commonly used
> >>>>>>>here in Greece. Also personal notes was really important and no sw
> >>>>>>>gave real significance to that issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I am married with one child, and my responsibilities leave my with
> >>>>>>>few time to work on this project. I would be really happy though if
> >>>>>>>I could help anyhow with this idea. I have recently put up a site
> >>>>>>>with the software which (unfortunately?) is in greek, though I have
> >>>>>>>made an english version of the software. If anyone would like to
> >>>>>>>check it out here is the link for the english version of the
> >>>>>>>software: http://www.theword.gr/bin/theword-en-0.99-full.exe
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I would be really happy if I could help out here in any way, either
> >>>>>>> by giving the code, some ideas on the platform or anything else I
> >>>>>>> could help with. I could also give some ideas about the Java
> >>>>>>> platform since it is my everyday work for years now.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Thanks,
> >>>>>>>Costas
> >>>>>>>(once more, excuse me for my bad english)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
> >>>>>>>>Jason Turner wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Personally I'd rather see a Java version than .NET.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>So, to get to my point, I was considering writing a new UI in
> >>>>>>>>> .NET. However, .NET cannot utilize native C++ libraries. It can
> >>>>>>>>> use Managed C++, C#, ActiveX DLL's and native C libraries. Since
> >>>>>>>>> I cannot use the Sword API as it stands, I was considering
> >>>>>>>>> reimplementing a subset of it in .NET, and then building the UI
> >>>>>>>>> on top of that. Of course releasing the whole thing under the
> >>>>>>>>> GPL.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>So, I'm looking for comments. Does anyone have any other
> >>>>>>>>> suggestions? Is there anything that I have missed? Should I take
> >>>>>>>>> a closer look at Diatheke or ActiveDiatheke? Is someone else
> >>>>>>>>> already working on a new Windows client?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Thanks.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Jason Turner
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On Monday 10 March 2003 09:27 pm, David Trotz wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>No the windows version does not allow this. Certain versions of
> >>>>>>>>>> the bible will automatically break the paragraph into seperate
> >>>>>>>>>> lines per verse, but other than that the answer is no. Sorry. It
> >>>>>>>>>> may be added someday. David ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>From: Christopher Frazier
> >>>>>>>>>>To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:52 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [sword-devel] UI for Windows Question...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I've been looking everywhere for this, and since I haven't found
> >>>>>>>>>> the archive to the lists, I guess I have to ask it here:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>How do you view the Bible text one verse per line in Sword for
> >>>>>>>>>>Windows?!?  BibleTime does this in an obvious way, but I cannot
> >>>>>>>>>> figure this out at all in Windows.  Does the program do this at
> >>>>>>>>>> all?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>TIA!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Chris
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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