[sword-devel] Re: Web Interface - Parallel Version Display, was Re: [sword-devel]
Please test
Troy A. Griffitts
sword-devel@crosswire.org
Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:08:40 -0700
Hey Don,
Thanks for your comments. I've been having real trouble viewing the
parallel display with IE. I don't often use IE, but when I attempt to
show it off to 'common'-folk, they usually are. My belief is that if
ANY part of the page does not completely validate per XML spec, IE
defaults from XHTML to old-school HTML markup and loses much of the CSS
and other features. Any ideas on that?
Also, I wanted to let you know that we moved the website into the sword
CVS repository, module name 'swordweb', and I set you up with an
account. We now can modify in a private area and then commit our
changes. There are some nuances with permission, but you should be able
to execute the commands (# lines are comments below):
cd /home/sword/html/biblenew/delbourne
# or I think you have a symlink in your home, so
# cd ~/biblenew/delbourne is the same
# be sure your private work area is up to date
cvs update -d
# make your changes and test
# if you've taken a while to get your changes done and ready to
# commit, then you should first run update again to be sure anyone
# else's changes are merged in with yours and retest your work if
# it looks like update updated anything.
cvs update -d
#commit your work
cvs commit
# cvs will then ask you for a comment about what you changed.
# YOU'RE IN VI!!! A few basic VI commands:
# There are 2 basic modes in VI- Command and Edit
# You are initially in command mode. To get to edit mode you
# can use one of the following:
#
# i = insert at current location
# A = append to the end of the line
# o or O = open a new line below or above current line
#
# ESC = returns to command mode
# Command mode keys:
# x = deletes 1 character
# dd = deletes 1 line
# u = undo (multiple undos available)
# ZZ or :wq = saves and exits
# :q! = quite without saving
# Then go up one directory, to the public biblenew location
cd ..
# And update the public site to the latest stuff
cvs update -d
Looking forward to your changes! Thanks for keeping us in check!
-Troy.
Don A. Elbourne Jr. wrote:
> I probably ought to apologize for my rant this morning. the scream was half
> in jest, well probably more like 90% in jest. :) I did freak out a little
> bit when I saw the align tags, width tags, and inline style smattered
> throughout the page. But after a closer look, there are only a few things
> that could be cleaned up and moved to the external CSS pretty easily.
>
> The table itself is actually a great idea. For all the things I've said
> against table based design, tables do have their place. Their place is to
> display tabular data. The parallel translations are tabular data and thus
> well suited for a table. We just need to take out any presentational mark-up
> and replace it with semantic markup.
>
> Another issue with the table is space. With the table being squished into
> the center column, things get real cramped real quick. I'm not sure what
> ought to be done about that. Removing the outer columns and just using one
> big table across the page would be one option, but you lose the cool one
> click feature that is working there now.
>
> One option might be to have a separate page, or another section on the
> preferences page, that would allow the person to select the translations
> they want displayed.
>
> by grace alone,
>
> Don A. Elbourne Jr.
> http://elbourne.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don A. Elbourne Jr." <delbourne@cox.net>
> To: <sword-devel@crosswire.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 7:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Please test
>
>
>
>>AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
>>http://www.crosswire.org/sword/biblenew/parallelstudy.jsp
>>
>>ok ok I'm calm. I just had to get it out of my system.
>>
>>Let me get another cup of coffee and I'll be right back.
>>
>>OK. A good bit of presentational markup has crept in there. One of the
>
> goals
>
>>of the design was to separate content and structure from presentation.
>
> Allow
>
>>me to cross-post something I sent out yesterday to a church-webmaster list
>
> I
>
>>am on.
>>
>>----------------------------------------------
>>
>>We have been talking about the advantages of valid XHTML and CSS. One of
>
> the
>
>>real advantages is that you can separate your content from presentation.
>
> In
>
>>other words your HTML file will have just your content with tags that
>
> define
>
>>the content instead of bloating the page with presentational information.
>>See my previous message to Paul, where I showed how to replace a big block
>>of presentational markup with a simple <h2> tag. Instead of defining the
>>size, color, justification, and margin of the text, we defined it by what
>
> it
>
>>is, a heading. You can use the same thing with divs by using either an id
>
> or
>
>>a class, like this <div id="navigation"> or <div class="content">
>>
>>Once the structure of your page is in place you can style all of the
>>elements with one external style sheet. Lets suppose you have 50 pages on
>>your site. If all your navigation lists are marked with presentational
>
> code
>
>>like <font> tags then to make a change you will have to go to each of
>
> those
>
>>50 pages and make your changes. But if you code them with
>
> non-presentational
>
>>markup like <div id="navigation"> you can then make changes to your one
>
> CSS
>
>>file and it will effect every page of your site at one go. Cool huh?
>>
>>This is what I tried to do with my church web site. Here is what it looks
>>like without the CSS:
>>http://lakeshorebaptist.net/nocss.shtml
>>And here is what it looks like with the CSS:
>>http://lakeshorebaptist.net/
>>
>>I know my site is sort of plain-Jane looking, but if I wanted to change
>
> the
>
>>complete look of the site, all I would have to do is change the CSS, not
>>every page of the site.
>>
>>My site is not the best example. If you want to see something really cool,
>>check out the CSS Zen Garden. The page is marked up in pure
>>non-presentational XHTML. The challenge went out to designers to
>
> transform
>
>>the page with nothing but the magic of CSS. I could not find an unstyled
>>version of the page on the site so I mirrored it here:
>>http://elbourne.org/temp/zengarden.htm Now check out the styled version:
>>http://www.csszengarden.com/ Follow the links in the navigation to view
>>other designs. I think my favorites so far are Michael Pick's "Dead or
>>Alive" and Golden Mean by Douglas Bowman. The amazing thing is that all
>
> of
>
>>these pages are the same exact page. No changes were made to the HTML
>>itself. the only difference is that different style sheets are being
>>imported. Remarkable.
>>
>>I know that is just one page, but let's suppose it was a site with
>
> thousands
>
>>of pages. Can you imagine trying to make drastic changes like that to the
>>entire site, page by page? Big names like ESPN.com are starting to see how
>>much time can be saved with this method and they recently switched over to
>>semantic XHTML. Probably none of us have church web sites with thousands
>
> of
>
>>pages, but the same principles work well no matter what the content.
>>-----------------------------------------------
>>
>>I use the CSS Zen Garden as an example of the remarkable stuff that can be
>>done using CSS when it is applied to pure semantic XHTML. When I started
>>designing the Sword web interface, I intended for the CSS to be a working
>>demo of one possible design. If we keep the XHTML pure and without
>>presentational markup we can then come back and do whatever with the CSS
>
> and
>
>>not have to re-code the source. Perhaps we could even get a real designer
>
> to
>
>>come in and provide an outstanding CSS, in opposition to my feeble
>
> attempts.
>
>>Or we could provide more than one CSS and the user could choose their
>>preference. These things are only possible if we stick to
>
> non-presentational
>
>>well-formed valid XHTML in the page itself.
>>
>> Tristan Nitot can say it better than I can. Check out the great article "
>>The Business Benefits of Web Standards."
>>http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2003/why-web-standards/
>>
>>Alright enough of that.
>></rant>
>>
>>by grace alone,
>>
>>Don A. Elbourne Jr.
>>http://elbourne.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>sword-devel mailing list
>>sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list
> sword-devel@crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel