[sword-devel] Legal ?

Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:56:26 -0700

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At 10:06 PM 11/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>    I'd just like to take a couple of lines to clear up a bit of confusion.  I
>went and checked both the International Bible Society and Zondervan 
>websites, and
>in a few short minutes found out the following facts.  1)The International 
>Bible
>Society is the owner of the copyright for the NIV, NOT ZONDERVAN.  2)However,
>Zondervan has the _exclusive_ license to distribute the NIV in North America.
>
>That might seem like a rather meaningless distinction to you, but consider 
>this.
>First, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. does not own the NIV (wow, thank 
>goodness; I
>was a little worried there when I read someone's post stating that he 
>owned the
>NIV ;-)

It is true: IBS is the copyright owner, but Zondervan is the exclusive 
North American publisher (except that IBS retains the right to sell copies 
of the NIV not for resale -- and they have some pretty good deals on 
paperback Bibles for handing out for ministry purposes). This still gives 
Rupert Murdoch more control over the NIV distribution and publication 
policy than I like. I do take comfort in the fact that he had basically 
nothing to do with the translation process itself. It is probably not 
likely that Mr. Murdoch would exercise much personal control over 
Zondervan, other than ensuring that the publisher places a very high 
priority on making a profit.

>However, sad as I am to say it, I doubt we could ever get a license from
>Zondervan.

It is possible... but not likely in the near future. I would rate our 
chances of getting NASB and GW redistribution permission as fairly high 
under the right circumstances, though. I'm not sure if it is worth the 
effort to do so.

>However, all this discussion got me to thinking about something. . . Is 
>Crosswire
>a legally incorporated entity?  If we were ever to try to get some sort of
>permission from a copyright holder to re-distribute their texts, they would
>probably want the agreement signed by a corporation of some sort, as 
>opposed to
>being signed by Troy ;-)  Should crosswire consider some sort of XFree86 style
>incorporation and membership?  This would help also from a legal 
>standpoint, as
>it would strenghten any arguments y'all might like to make that for, say, 
>a given
>text you are only distributing it "internally" for developement purposes.

Incorporation has the advantage of limiting liability of individual members 
of an organization. For example, if someone sued a corporation, all 
corporate assets could be taken, but not necessarily all of the assets of 
the directors of the corporation. If someone sues an individual, then they 
could take all of his or her assets, plus place a lien on any future 
earnings. There are some other advantages, too. There are also some 
disadvantages in terms of meeting all the paperwork and filing requirements 
of a corporation.

And, maybe MPJ or someone else could give more concrete numbers, but I don't
>think any court would give huge punitive damages for such a small 
>distribution,
>would they?

I'd be guessing, too. In case of such a lawsuit, I have nothing to lose 
except some time and money defending myself. If I had handed out 20 copies 
of the NIV in electronic form, I could be sued for actual damages (maybe 
$400) plus attorney's fees (maybe $4,000) plus punitive damages (maybe 
$50,000), although it is hard to tell if Zondervan would risk the bad press 
involved in such a lawsuit. In any case, the issue to me is not so much a 
matter of possible punishment in the courts, but of my own conscience and 
what Jesus would do.

>   Of course at this point I'm stretching the point here, and we want
>to avoid being in court at all, but my point is, wouldn't incorporation 
>give us a
>little more concrete place to work from, legally?
>
>
>Jeff Schmidt

_______

Michael Paul Johnson
mpj@eBible.org    http://ebible.org/mpj

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<html>
At 10:06 PM 11/23/99 -0500, you wrote: 
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hello everyone, 
&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd just like to take a couple of lines to clear up a bit of
confusion.&nbsp; I 
went and checked both the International Bible Society and Zondervan
websites, and 
in a few short minutes found out the following facts.&nbsp; 1)The
International Bible 
Society is the owner of the copyright for the NIV, NOT ZONDERVAN.&nbsp;
2)However, 
Zondervan has the _exclusive_ license to distribute the NIV in North
America. 
 
That might seem like a rather meaningless distinction to you, but
consider this. 
First, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. does not own the NIV (wow, thank
goodness; I 
was a little worried there when I read someone's post stating that he
owned the 
NIV ;-)</blockquote> 
It is true: IBS is the copyright owner, but Zondervan is the exclusive
North American publisher (except that IBS retains the right to sell
copies of the NIV not for resale -- and they have some pretty good deals
on paperback Bibles for handing out for ministry purposes). This still
gives Rupert Murdoch more control over the NIV distribution and
publication policy than I like. I do take comfort in the fact that he had
basically nothing to do with the translation process itself. It is
probably not likely that Mr. Murdoch would exercise much personal control
over Zondervan, other than ensuring that the publisher places a very high
priority on making a profit. 
 
<blockquote type=cite cite>However, sad as I am to say it, I doubt we
could ever get a license from 
Zondervan.</blockquote> 
It is possible... but not likely in the near future. I would rate our
chances of getting NASB and GW redistribution permission as fairly high
under the right circumstances, though. I'm not sure if it is worth the
effort to do so. 
 
<blockquote type=cite cite>However, all this discussion got me to
thinking about something. . . Is Crosswire 
a legally incorporated entity?&nbsp; If we were ever to try to get some
sort of 
permission from a copyright holder to re-distribute their texts, they
would 
probably want the agreement signed by a corporation of some sort, as
opposed to 
being signed by Troy ;-)&nbsp; Should crosswire consider some sort of
XFree86 style 
incorporation and membership?&nbsp; This would help also from a legal
standpoint, as 
it would strenghten any arguments y'all might like to make that for, say,
a given 
text you are only distributing it &quot;internally&quot; for developement
purposes.&nbsp; </blockquote> 
Incorporation has the advantage of limiting liability of individual
members of an organization. For example, if someone sued a corporation,
all corporate assets could be taken, but not necessarily all of the
assets of the directors of the corporation. If someone sues an
individual, then they could take all of his or her assets, plus place a
lien on any future earnings. There are some other advantages, too. There
are also some disadvantages in terms of meeting all the paperwork and
filing requirements of a corporation. 
 
And, maybe MPJ or someone else could give more concrete numbers, but I
don't 
<blockquote type=cite cite>think any court would give huge punitive
damages for such a small distribution, 
would they?</blockquote> 
I'd be guessing, too. In case of such a lawsuit, I have nothing to lose
except some time and money defending myself. If I had handed out 20
copies of the NIV in electronic form, I could be sued for actual damages
(maybe $400) plus attorney's fees (maybe $4,000) plus punitive damages
(maybe $50,000), although it is hard to tell if Zondervan would risk the
bad press involved in such a lawsuit. In any case, the issue to me is not
so much a matter of possible punishment in the courts, but of my own
conscience and what Jesus would do. 
 
 
 
 
<blockquote type=cite cite>&nbsp; Of course at this point I'm stretching
the point here, and we want 
to avoid being in court at all, but my point is, wouldn't incorporation
give us a 
little more concrete place to work from, legally? 
 
 
Jeff Schmidt </blockquote> 
<div>_______</div>
 
<div>Michael Paul
Johnson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</div>
<div>mpj@eBible.org&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://ebible.org/mpj" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://ebible.org/mpj</a></div>
</html>

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