[osis-users] OSIS cross-reference questions
Brian J Dumont
brian.j.dumont at gmail.com
Thu Nov 22 10:42:05 MST 2012
Hi Markku,
I am not an OSIS expert, but I will give an attempt:
1) I would suggest both of these as legitimate OSIS which you could
select between:
<note n="1"><reference osisRef="Gen.1.3 Exod.26.15-Exod.26.30">Genesis
1, 3; Ex. 26, 15 -30</reference></note>
or:
<note n="1"><reference osisRef="Gen.1.3">Genesis 1, 3</reference>;
<reference osisRef="Exod.26.15-Exod.26.30">Ex. 26, 15 -30</reference></note>
One thing that I'm pretty sure is INVALID is a reference like:
<note n="1"><reference osisRef="Gen.1.3 Exod.26.15-30">Genesis 1, 3; Ex.
26, 15 -30</reference></note>
or anything with nested <note>s
2)mostly covered above, but let me expound:
<note n="1"><p>This note gives explanation of why these references are
here, including <reference osisRef="Gen.1.3">Genesis 1,
3</reference></note>.</p><p>This second paragraph within the same note
goes on to say <reference osisRef="Exod.26.15-Exod.26.30">Ex. 26, 15
-30</reference></p></note>
3) To my understanding this is allowed in OSIS but unsupported and hence
I would avoid.
I hope this helps some. Like I say, not an expert, but I'm pretty sure
this works.
Blessings,
Brian
On 11/22/2012 09:40 AM, Markku Pihlaja wrote:
>
> I'm feeling a bit alone here now - quite a few questions still remain
> unanswered after several days, and they are rather crucial for me to
> continue my work.
>
> To make answering easier, I'll sum up some more: there are now three
> fundamental questions that need answers - all other questions are
> actually derived from trying to solve them. So if you can't find
> answers to these three (marked with Roman numbers I...III), feel free
> to help with the previous ones (Arabic numbers 1...7 - or actually
> 2...6; 1 and 7 are the same as I and III).
>
> ---------------------------
>
> *I.* How do I markup a single but compound cross-reference that refers
> to non-adjacent verses or ranges, so that it (structurally) differs
> from a (more typical) note containing separate references to the same
> verses/ranges?
>
> *II.* How do I markup a reference to a note whose source is more
> complex than just one verse or a contiguous range?
>
> *III.* Is it possible to have a reference's osisRef with a
> sub-identifier without a corresponding osisID having that (or any)
> sub-identifier?
> *
> *
> Example:
> <verse osisID="*Deut.32.15*" sID="Deut.32.15" />Jeshurun grew fat and
> kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the
> God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.<verse
> eID="Deut.32.15" />
> ...
> <reference osisRef="*Deut.32.15!part2*">
>
> ---------------------------
>
> And then to the wider variety of derived questions. No need to read
> further if you managed to answer all three previous ones :).
>
>
> I tried running different kinds of osisIDs through a validator
> integrated to oXygen. As expected, a hyphen in an osisID wouldn't
> validate. But the list of multiple space-separated single IDs does
> pass the validation.
>
> Well, if we trust in what passes through the validator, I get answers
> to many of my own questions (IF we trust the validator, that is):
>
> *2)* Is listing multiple individual osisIDs separated by a space
> really allowed in *a)*osisIDs *b)* osisRefs?
> a) YES and b) YES, even though after carefully examining the type
> declarations for osisRefRegex and osisIDRegex in the
> osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file I still haven't found out how the spaces could
> be valid.
>
> *3)* If the answer to 2a) is yes, what is allowed with a compound ID
> like that?
> It seems that any valid osisID will do as a component of such a
> compound osisID.
>
> Specifically, can I use sub-identifiers?
> Thus: YES. But the exclamation mark and sub-identifier will need to be
> attached to one of the component IDs, it can't follow a space.
>
> *4)* If the answer to 2b) is yes, what is allowed in that compound
> ref? Specifically, are ranges allowed in such compound refs?
> Trying with a validator, it seems: YES. For example, this is judged valid:
> osisRef="Gen.1.3 Gen.1.5-Gen.1.7 Gen.2.2-Gen.2.5"
> even though Durusay's manual says that "a single osisRef cannot
> identify a discontiguous range of a work".
>
>
> This would seem to provide a step closer to being able to refer to
> notes with the more complex sources I've been talking about (question
> II.), although not quite. [Note that this wouldn't apply to normal
> compound references to verses].
>
> This would be valid:
> <note type="crossReference" osisID="*Deut.32.15
> Deut.32.17!crossReference*">
> ...
> <reference osisRef="*Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17!crossReference*">Deut.
> 32.15,17</reference>
>
> although !crossReference being attached only to verse 17 gives a
> slightly false impression. Moreover, this would not be valid:
> <note type="crossReference" osisID="*Deut.32.15
> Deut.32.17-Deut.32.22!crossReference*">
> because of the hyphen in an osisID.
>
>
> My next idea would be rather unorthodox, and I hope you consider twice
> before answering "no, of course that can't be done". I would love to
> solve this problem in a beautiful, "standard OSIS" way. But since
> nobody has given me a sufficient answer to how to do it, it seems I
> need to get creative, with the cost of some "standard" conventions.
>
> The osisRefRegex and osisIDRegex type declarations (and thus also
> validators) allow some slightly peculiar formats, including "1.Gen.2",
> "1.2.Gen", "1_.2", "1._.2" and even "_". Of course there is usually no
> reason to use these forms.
>
> *7)* Would something like this be acceptable?
> <note type="crossReference"
> osisID="*Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17!crossReference*">
> ...
> <reference osisRef="*Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17!crossReference*">Deut.
> 32.15,17</reference>
> or
> <note type="crossReference"
> osisID="*Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17.Deut.32.22_Deut.32.26!crossReference*">
>
> Funny as they look, they really are valid OSIS. So: what reasons are
> there NOT to use them? I would of course document this convention
> carefully. I emphasize the fact that I do need a way to refer to
> *notes* in addition to verses and ranges.
>
> Well, hopefully some of this is answerable.
>
> Thanks again in advance, and sorry for bothering you with such long
> messages.
>
> Markku
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 21. Nov 2012 Markku Pihlaja:
>
> Thanks for the reply,
>
> 2012/11/21 <davidtroidl at aol.com>
>
> Deut. 32:15,17,22--26could be marked up
> <reference osisRef="Deut.32.15">Deut. 32:15</reference>,
> <reference osisRef="Deut.32.17">17</reference>, <reference
> osisRef="Deut.32.22-Deut.32.26">22-26</reference>
>
> I've tried explaining this earlier: that just isn't enough for us
> here.
>
> There would be no structural difference between a note containing
> that one compound reference that consists of three verses (or
> ranges), and a note containing a list of three separate
> references. The only difference might be in the separator tokens,
> but those are outside the markup and shouldn't count.
>
> I'll make the problem even clearer: how do you markup this list of
> four different references (I'll mark each with a different color)?
>
> Deut. 32:15;Deut. 32.17;Deut. 22-26;Deut. 32:15,17,22--26
>
> This one is of course a rather imaginary and unreal example -
> there would probably never be a list where the three verses/ranges
> are first individual references and then form a compound one - but
> using the same verses here shows the problem more clearly.
>
> The note marker appearing in the text for this whole list of four
> references should be one single note, not four, so (as stated
> previously in this discussion by DM) all these should be packaged
> within just one pair of <note> tags.
>
> What you're suggesting would be a list of six separate references,
> the three last ones just being separated with commas instead of
> semicolons, and the "Deut." being omitted from the content part of
> the last two - but those separators and the missing book names are
> content instead of structure markup. Structurally that would be
> the identical three references listed twice.
>
>
> osisID's are meant to be unique identifiers for book, chapter
> and verse elements in a bible. They should not be used in
> notes, and they should not contain multiple references
>
>
> I don't quite agree, at least on not being for use in notes, and
> nor does Durusau's manual. For instance lines 2, 5, 8 and 11 in
> the example on page 45 show notes with osisID's. Also, osisID is
> listed as one of the attributes of the note element (as well as
> basically any other element, too).
>
> Isn't the main purpose of an ID to be used for referring to the
> element it represents, regardless of the element's type? And I do
> need to be able to refer to notes here, so the obvious (and maybe
> even only?) way would be using the osisID. I just need to find a
> good way of naming notes with a source more complex than just one
> verse, and referring to them.
>
> --------------
>
> About osisIDs not being able to contain multiple references: about
> this, too, the Durusau manual disagrees. On page 89 there's the
> example
> <p osisID="Matt.1.1 Matt.1.2 Matt.1.3">...</p>,
> although I did wonder about the correctness of this in my previous
> message, since I couldn't find such syntax in the OSIS schema.
>
> But if osisIDs really are only able to refer to one verse, then
> I hope someone can suggest an alternative method for what I need
> to do.
>
> Markku
>
>
>
>
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