No subject
Mon Nov 12 12:59:54 MST 2012
o indicate the code points (think characters) that comprise the sub-part. I=
t is used like SUBSTR in many programming languages.
However, If you are going to go to that much trouble then I'd suggest that =
you split the note into various parts and put them into the proper location=
s in the file.
The basic idea of the <note> element is that it appears in the source at th=
e position that you want the marker(s). If you want one marker, then you ha=
ve one note. If you want 3 then you have 3.
Hope this helps,
=09DM
Thanks for your patience, these are rather hard to explain exactly and unde=
rstandably but in short :).
Markku
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=20
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----------MB_8CF964202AF9438_DC4_C705_Webmail-d110.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'><font color=3D"#990000">Deu=
t. 32:15,17,22=E2=80=9326<font size=3D"2"> could be marked up<br>
<font size=3D"2"><reference osisRef=3D"Deut.32.15">Deut. 32:15</re=
ference>, </font></font></font><font color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2">=
<font size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2">=
<reference osisRef=3D"Deut.32.17">17</reference>, </font></font=
></font></font></font></font><font color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2"><font=
size=3D"2"><reference osisRef=3D"Deut.32.22-Deut.32.26">22-26</re=
ference><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2">osisID's are meant to be unique identifiers for <font size=
=3D"2">book, chapter and verse elements in a bible. They should not b=
e used in notes<font size=3D"2">, and they should not cont<font size=3D"2">=
ain multiple references.<br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2">Peace,<br>
<br>
<font size=3D"2">David</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font color=3D"blac=
k" face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">Deut. 32:1=
5,17,22=E2=80=9326</blockquote></div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Markku Pihlaja <markku.pihlaja at sempre.fi><br>
To: osis-users <osis-users at crosswire.org><br>
Sent: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:34 am<br>
Subject: Re: [osis-users] OSIS cross-reference questions<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_1f3dd31f-019e-464a-adbf-8c3641617e4f">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well, no replies to my previous message.</div>
<div>My explanations might have been too long for anyone to take the effort=
of reading - sorry about that. So now I'll try reducing and simplyfying th=
e questions that I still need an answer for. Read further to previous conve=
rsations if you need more details.</div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>1)</b> How do I make a difference between a=
list of three separate crossreferences and a single compound crossreferenc=
e that consists of three separate verses (or even ranges)?</font></div>
<div>Example:</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Deut. 32:15; Deut. 32:17; Deut. 32:22=E2=
=80=9326</font></div>
<div>
<div>vs.</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Deut. 32:15,17,22=E2=80=9326</font></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I emphasize that the second example is just a single reference to a no=
n-contiguous set of verses, and can also be one of several separate referen=
ces on a list like the first example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>2)</b> Is listing multiple individual verse=
s separated by a space really allowed in <b>a)</b> osisIDs <b>b)</b> osisRe=
fs?</font> </div>
<div>I tried parsing the OSIS schema for osisIDRegex and osisRefRegex but c=
ouldn't find anything that would allow this - probably missed just the cruc=
ial character somewhere. The Durusau manual does give an example about=
<b>a)</b> under "15.4. Grouping". But the manual says that "a single =
osisRef cannot identify a discontiguous range of a work", so the answer to&=
nbsp;<b>b)</b> is probably "no" and the latter of the two examples bel=
ow incorrect?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Example:</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><note type=3D"crossReference" osisID=3D"<b>=
Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17</b>"></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><reference osisRef=3D"<b>Deut.32.15 Deut.32=
.17</b>"></font></div>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><br>
</font></div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>3)</b> If the answer to 2a) is yes, what is=
allowed with a compound ID like that? Specifically, can I use sub-identifi=
ers?</font> </div>
<div>If I name a note with such a grouped osisID, can I append !crossR=
eference to it - and where should I place it? After an extra space after th=
e last verse listed or connected to the las verse (in which case it looks l=
ike it only applies to that verse)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Example:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossReference" os=
isID=3D"</span><b style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17 !cross=
Reference</b><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
<div>or </div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossReference" os=
isID=3D"</span><b style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17!crossR=
eference</b><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
</div>
<div>or something else?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Merely <span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossR=
eference" osisID=3D"</span><b style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15!cross=
Reference</b><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"> </span>won't do =
because I need to make a difference between a note attached to just verse 1=
5 and to verses 15 and 17 together. And I do need to refer to the very note=
instead of the verses, that's why I need that sub-identifier.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>4)</b> If the answer to 2b) is yes, wh=
at is allowed in that compound ref? Specifically, are ranges allowed i=
n such compound refs?</font></div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Example:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><reference osisRef=3D"</span><b =
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17 </b><b style=3D"col=
or:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.22-Deut.32.26</b><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)=
">"></span></div>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div>I guess this goes back to question 1) especially if 2b) was =
wrong.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>5)</b> If 2b (and thus also 4) is wron=
g, how do I make a cross-reference to a <b>note</b> whose <b>source</b> pas=
sage </font><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,255)">consists of incontigu=
ous verses? Also, since annotateRef takes an osisRef value, how can I indic=
ate an incontiguous source in that?</span></div>
<div></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Example, apparently with at least an invalid osisRef:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossReference" os=
isID=3D"</span><b style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17 !cross=
Reference</b><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">...</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><reference osisRef=3D"</span><b =
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17 !crossReference</b><span=
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">">Deut. 32.15,17</reference></span><=
/div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<font color=3D"#3333ff"><b>6) </b>Is it possible to have a reference's osis=
Ref with a sub-identifier without a corresponding osisID having that (or an=
y) sub-identifier?</font></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div>Example:</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><verse osisID=3D"<b>Deut.32.15</b>" sID=3D"=
Deut.32.15" />Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he be=
came heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Ro=
ck his Savior.<verse eID=3D"Deut.32.15" /></font></div>
<div>...</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><reference osisRef=3D"<b>Deut.32.15!part2</=
b>"></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
Complicated questions, I hope you have some answers or at least workarounds=
!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Markku</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2012/11/19 Markku Pihlaja <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
<a href=3D"mailto:markku.pihlaja at sempre.fi">markku.pihlaja at sempre.fi</a>>=
;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Thanks DM,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(Others are also welcome to share their views! And also to check the o=
ne new question at the end, after the second "-----------" marker)</d=
iv>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That didn't quite solve my problem. You say I shouldn't nest reference=
s. But I do need some way of making a difference between a compound referen=
ce and a list of separate references. An example:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In Gen. 46:12, we have three references: </div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Gen. 38:7,10; Num. 26:19-21; 1. Chr. 4:1</font=
></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The first one, to Gen., is indeed just one reference even though it re=
fers to separate verses. As far as I can figure out, an unnested note would=
n't be able to tell whether Gen.38.7 and Gen.38.10 are parts of the same re=
ference or two independent references:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossreference">=
;</span></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Gen.38.7<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"&=
gt;</span>Gen. 38:7<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference>,</=
span></div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Gen.38.10<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"=
></span>10<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference>;</span><=
/div>
</div>
<div>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <referenc=
e osisRef=3D"</span>Num. 26:19-21<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>Num. 26:19-21<span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference>;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>1Chr.4.1<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>1. Chr. 4:1<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, to a human those first two refs would probably lo=
ok like one reference, but the computer needs to rely solely on the markup =
and not what's between.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If, on the other hand, I list that as three subsequent notes, the semi=
colons wouldn't be embedded in any tags and thus would be rendered even whe=
n reference notes should be hidden.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossreference">=
;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Gen.38.7<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"&=
gt;</span>Gen. 38:7<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference>,</=
span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Gen.38.10<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"=
></span>10<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
<div>;</div>
<div> <span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossreferen=
ce"></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Num. 26:19-21<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0=
)">"</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>Num. 26:19-21<span=
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
<div>;</div>
<div> <span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossreferen=
ce"></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>1Chr.4.1<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>1. Chr. 4:1<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>I guess it is also true what you wrote about note tags: they represent=
the marker(s) in the text (even though most of our printed Finnish Bibles =
don't include markers within the text; the notes are listed after certain p=
assages with references to the position of the note instead). Also this wou=
ld imply that I shouldn't use the later example with three subsequent =
notes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You mentioned one more approach, listing all parts of the compound ref=
erence in one osisRef. That would seem to work somehow:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div> <span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type=3D"crossreferen=
ce"></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Gen.38.7 Gen.38.10<span style=3D"color:rgb(15=
3,0,0)">"></span>Gen. 38:7,10<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></ref=
erence>;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>Num. 26:19-21<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0=
)">"</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>Num. 26:19-21<span=
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference>;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <ref=
erence osisRef=3D"</span>1Chr.4.1<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">"<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">></span>1. Chr. 4:1<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>This osisRef / osisID style, however, is missing from Durusau's User M=
anual. There is section "15.4 Grouping" that does give an example of s=
uch notation with osisIDs, but "Appendix J - osisIDs: Construction Rules" d=
oesn't say anything about this. And I've found nothing whatsoever about osi=
sRefs like this. So is this certainly valid markup?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, assuming <font color=3D"#990000">"Gen.38.7 Gen.38.10"</font> wou=
ld be a valid osisRef, would also for example <font color=3D"#990000">=
"Gen.38.7 Gen.38.10-Gen.38.12" </font>be? We also have a few compound refer=
ences consisting of separate verses AND one or more ranges.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for my question number 3) - the subdivision of a referenced v=
erse - I tried to explain that there is no automatic or even easy manual wa=
y of determining where each subdivision of the verse begins. We would need =
a Bible content expert to do that, and we don't have one for this project.<=
/div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So referring to a fine-grained position of a verse is no option since =
we don't know where each exact position would be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll refine my question:</div>
<div>Is there any way of determining a "vague" division of a verse? For exa=
mple, does the extension part of an osisRef always need to have a correspon=
ding osisID somewhere? Or could we have a verse like this:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <verse osisID=3D"</span>X=
xx.2.14<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">" sID=3D.... /></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> Some text here. Some more te=
xt here. Even some more text here. And more and more text.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <verse eID=3D"... /></=
span></div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and then have a reference like this:</div>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <reference osisRef=
=3D"</span>Xxx.2.14!c<span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">">Xxx 2:14</span=
><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></reference></span></div>
<div>
<div>with just the osisID "Xxx.2.14" declared but not "Xxx.2.14!c"?</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know this is vague, but so is our current notation, and I'm trying t=
o find some means of including the info in the current notation also in the=
markup. My plan B would then be to just encode all the references to the w=
hole verse and let only the | separators indicate to the reader that the re=
ferences point to different parts of the verse, just as in the printed vers=
ions now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And now for one new somewhat related question.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We also have something that could be called indirect references. Our n=
otation</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Gen. 24:7+</font></div>
<div>tells us that this reference doesn't refer to Gen. 24:7 itself, but it=
shares the references listed for that verse instead. For example, this Gen=
. 24:7 has references:</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><note osisID=3D"</font>Gen.24.7!crossRefere=
nce<font color=3D"#990000">"></font></div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference osisRef=3D"Gen.50.=
24">Gen. 50:24</reference>;</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference </font><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">osisRef</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0=
)">=3D"Deut.1.8">Deut. 1:8</reference>;</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<font color=3D"#990000"> <reference </font><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">osisRef</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">=
=3D"Josh.1.6">Josh. 1:6</reference>;</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference </font><span =
style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)">osisRef</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0=
)">=3D"Judg.2.1">Judg.2:1</reference></span></div>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"></note></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now when another verse lists "<font color=3D"#990000">Gen. 24:7+</font=
>" as its reference, it means that this reference list should be used as th=
e reference list for this verse, too. Unfortunately replacing the plus nota=
tion with the complete list isn't an option here - apparently the fact that=
these verses share the same references is of importance itself.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In normal cases, this would probably be rather simple: refer to t=
he note in Gen. 24:7 with</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><reference osisRef=3D"Gen.24.7!crossReferen=
ce" ...>Gen. 24:7+</reference></font>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But things get tricky when the referred verse in the plus notation is =
more than a single verse. We have notations like </div>
<div>"<font color=3D"#990000">Deut. 4:41,43+</font>". or "<font color=3D"#9=
90000">Gen. 15:19=E2=80=9321+</font>".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We might be able to cope with the first one, assuming the "Grouping" n=
otation discussed earlier is valid. But is it ok to add the sub-identifier =
"<font color=3D"#990000">!crossReference</font>" to an ID like this: "<font=
color=3D"#990000">Deut.4.41 Deut.4.43</font>", and where do I add it?</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But it gets worse with the latter notation, since ranges aren't a=
llowed in osisIDs - and thus I also can't create an osisRef "<font color=3D=
"#990000">Gen.15.19-Gen.15.21!crossReference</font>". Or that osisRef might=
still be valid, but at least the corresponding osisID wouldn't, and thus t=
hat reference wouldn't make sense.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One solution would obviously be to use the osisID of just the first ve=
rse - that would mean "<font color=3D"#990000">Deut.4.41!crossReference</fo=
nt>" or "<font color=3D"#990000">Gen.15.19!crossReference</font>" in my exa=
mples. But that is not possible since there might already be reference=
s for that verse alone. Also, omitting the other verses from the ID wo=
uld mean that nothing at all in the markup would tell that this note is rel=
ated to more than one verse:</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note osisid=3D"Gen.15.19!crossR=
eference"></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"> <reference osisRef=
=3D"Exod.3.8">Exod. 3:8</reference></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(153,0,0)"></note></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Any ideas?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Phew, these things are complicated to explain in an understandable man=
ner... And impossible to do it with only a few short lines.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once again, thanks in advance to those who take the effort of reading =
all this!</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Markku</div>
</font></span>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2012/11/14 DM Smith <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:dmsmith at crosswire.org">dmsmith at crosswire.org</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 14, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Markku Pihlaja <<a href=3D"mailto:mark=
ku.pihlaja at sempre.fi">markku.pihlaja at sempre.fi</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">I'll also need to return to some questions that a=
lready got answered ages ago - halfway to meet my final needs, as it now tu=
rned out.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
2012/4/26 David Troidl <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:DavidTroidl@=
aol.com">DavidTroidl at aol.com</a>></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
=20
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font color=3D"=
#999999" size=3D"1">1)<br>
How should I encode cross-references to non-contiguous verse
ranges? For example, I have this reference (in our standard
notation): Matt. 27:17,22. This is formally just one
reference to verses 17 and 22, not two separate references.
OSIS requires that "a single osisRef cannot identify a
discontiguous range of a work". So how should this be done?
Making one note that contains two references might be a step
towards what I want, but there would still be two separate
references.<br>
</font></blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<font color=3D"#999999" size=3D"1">Here is the way to encode discontiguous =
references:<br>
<note type=3D"crossReference"><reference
osisRef=3D"Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</reference>, <reference
osisRef=3D"Matt.27.22">22</reference></note></font><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, when I have a list of separate references, some of which are non-c=
ontiguous ones such as above, should I create a nested note to contain the =
different notes?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For example, if I have the following three references for one verse:</=
div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Matt. 27:17,22 ; 2. Sam. 7:16; Matt. 9:27</fon=
t></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>should that be coded as:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><note type=3D"crossreference"></font></d=
iv>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <note type=3D"c=
rossreference"></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisRef=3D"Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</refe=
rence>, </font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisRef=3D"Matt.27.22">22</reference></fon=
t></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> </note>;</fo=
nt></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <note type=3D"c=
rossreference"></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisRef=3D"2Sam.7.16">2. Sam. 7:16</refe=
rence></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> </note>;</fo=
nt></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <note type=3D"c=
rossreference"></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisRef=3D"Matt.9.27">Matt. 9:27</refere=
nce></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> </note></fon=
t></div>
</div>
<div></div>
</div>
<div>
<font color=3D"#990000"></note></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
No. Don't nest.</div>
<div>You can also use references such as <reference osisRef=3D"Matt.27.1=
7 Matt.27.22 2Sam.7.16 Matt.9.27">Matt 27:17,22; 2 Sam 7:16; Matt 9:27&l=
t;/reference>.</div>
<div>Note that some systems (e.g. SWORD Project) cannot handle this. And&nb=
sp;having 4 refs is better.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Putting all the <reference>'s within just one <note> conta=
iner would to me mean one reference to extremely non-contiguous verses. And=
if I omit the outer <note> tags, then the semicolon separators betwe=
en the different notes would fall outside any note and be rendered even whe=
n notes are hidden.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If that suggestion was right, what should we do in simpler cases where=
there is a group of contiguous references?Should I still enclose them in a=
second level of <note>'s for consistency, or would it be ok to use o=
nly one level like this (assuming here that there is no 27:22 in the first =
reference):</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><note type=3D"crossreference"></font></d=
iv>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference =
;osisRef=3D"Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</reference>;</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference =
;osisRef=3D"2Sam.7.16">2. Sam. 7:16</reference>;</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> <reference =
;osisRef=3D"Matt.9.27">Matt. 9:27</reference></font></div>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"></note></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
Just one level. Just like this.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div></div>
<div><blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">
<font color=3D"#999999" size=3D"1">3)<br>
Our cross-references are currently listed on a
verse-by-verse basis in a separate file. Each verse might
have a number of references, most of them separated by a
semi-colon. However, in some cases the separator is the
vertical line character, | (or the pipe sign). This
indicates a fine grained division of the source verse.
That's *source*, not target. For example,<br>
Luuk. 2:4-7 =C2=A6 Dan. 1:20<br>
would say that the beginning of the referring verse refers
to Luke 2:4-7, and the end to Daniel 1:20. There can be up
to 4 divisions like this in one verse. However, there is no
automatic way of determining what the exact division of the
source verse is. In fact, in some cases even I can't read
the verse and tell the division without reading the
referenced verses first.<br>
<br>
This means that in any case I'll probably need to leave the
OSIS coding vague in this respect. My question here: is
there a way to somehow indicate the existence of this
division within the tags, or is the only way to continue
marking it like it was done until now, like this:<br>
<reference section1a.... />; <reference
section1b.... /> | <reference section2.... /> |
<reference section3a.... />; <reference
section3b.... /><br>
<br>
Could that be done by using osisID's like<br>
Matt.1.1!crossReference.section1.a<br>
Matt.1.1!crossReference.section1.b etc.<br>
or is there a better way?<span><br>
</span></font></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
<font color=3D"#999999" size=3D"1">
I'm not exactly clear what you are asking here. If you want to ma=
rk
up the notes, without changing the markup of the Bible text, you
could use word numbers within the verse, to indicate where the note
applies.</font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I'm not quite clear if I got your point :).</div>
<div>Let me give you a quite precise example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>This is Acts 3:13:</div>
<div>
<font color=3D"#990000">"The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of ou=
r fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be kille=
d, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.=
"</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>For that verse, we have three different references which are marked li=
ke this:</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">Exod. 3:6 | Isa. 52:13 | Luke 23:16</fon=
t></div>
<div>The | separators (as opposed to semicolons that are normally used as s=
eparators in reference lists) indicate that the Exodus reference is related=
to the beginning of our verse, the Isaiah reference to the middle part and=
the Luke reference to the end.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you can see, even though the reference list applies that there are =
three sections in the verse, there is no automatic way of determining =
what exactly are "the beginning", "the middle" and "the end", or sections 1=
, 2 and 3 of that verse. In some cases it is even unclear after you've care=
fully read the verse and the references and tried to use common sense =
based on the contents to manually figure out what those sections are. =
So the aim of placing the reference notes separately in the text =
exactly where they should appear is rather impossible.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My question is: is there a way of indicating in a reference itself tha=
t the source of the reference is some sub-part of the verse? In this way, a=
pplications might be able to e.g. show an extra tag "from middle of verse" =
or something like that. Could we use subdivided osisID's for this purpose, =
like this:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"><note type=3D"cross-reference"></font></=
div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisID=3D"Acts.3.13!crossReference.1" osisRef=
=3D"Exod.3.6">Exod. 3:6</reference> |</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisID=3D"Acts.3.13.crossreference.2"&nbs=
p;osisRef=3D"Isa.52.13">Isa. 52:13</reference> |</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"> &nbs=
p; <reference osisID=3D"Acts.3.13.crossreference.3"&nbs=
p;osisRef=3D"Luke.23.16">Luke 23:16</reference></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000"></note></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and with even further fine-tuning if there were for example two refere=
nces before the first "|":</div>
<div><font color=3D"#990000">osisID=3D"Acts.3.13!crossReference.1.a"</font>=
and <font color=3D"#990000">osisID=3D"Acts.3.13!crossReference.1.b"&n=
bsp;</font>?</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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