Supplemental: Re: [osis-core] type on identifier and subject,
syntax of content
Patrick Durusau
osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:36:51 -0500
Todd,
Just a quick note for now.
See the post I made while on the phone with Troy.
The type="OSIS" mechanism triggers the recognition that this is the
value to be used by OSIS software when locating an OSIS text. See my
later post for more details. This is actually mentioned in 1.4.1 and I
am looking for other references.
This is NOT a context issue. At least when speaking of type="OSIS." It
is a matter of abstraction.
Hope you are at the start of a great day!
Patrick
Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> Patrick, Steve, Chris, and Troy,
>
> To be unambiguous we MUST include a prefix when using type="OSIS",
> because without the prefix we will not know the context that identifier
> value belongs to. (May I suggest type="unique" rather than type="OSIS"
> for greater clarity.)
>
> When using other type values the prefix would be implied based on the
> user documentation or based on a matching <work> value. (This will
> cause software to hard code the values documented in the user
> documentation.)
>
> Example:
> <identifier type="ISBN">123456789</identifier> will mean that the value
> "123456789" is a value in the "ISBN" context.
>
> However if we want to uniquely identify a work by its ISBN number the
> type attribute CAN NOT be used.
> <identifier type="OSIS">123456789</identifier> leaves context of the
> value ambiguous.
> <identifier type="OSIS">isbn:123456789</identifier> clearly qualifies
> the value.
>
> But why should we have two mechanisms to do the same thing, when one is
> ALWAYS unambiguous?
>
> Why not ONLY use the type attribute to indicate that a value is the
> primary identifier for programmatic identification and ALWAYS use a
> prefix?
>
> If it helps we can define a set of enumerated and reserved prefixes that
> imply a specific work element for the previously enumerated type values
> other than "OSIS".
>
> Proposal:
> 1) ONLY use "OSIS" (or "unique" in the place of "OSIS") as a type value.
> (x- for everything else.)
> 2) Always include a prefix to qualify the identifier value.
> 3) Define a set of enumerated and reserved prefixes for the previously
> enumerated type values other than "OSIS".
>
> Benefits:
> 1) Consistency in the use of the type attribute.
> 2) Consistent mechanism for declaring the SAME identifier when it the
> programmatically unique identifier for the <work> and when it isn't.
> 3) Consistent mechanism with other context qualified identifiers
> elsewhere in the schema.
>
> Example:
> Always say <identifier>isbn:123456789</identifier> rather than
> <identifier type="ISBN">123456789</identifier> so when you want to use
> type="OSIS" you are using the same mechanism to identify the context of
> the identifier.
>
> Is there a reason why this in not a more clear, consistent, and
> appropriate solution?
>
> Todd
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
>>admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
>>Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 5:35 PM
>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>Subject: Supplemental: Re: [osis-core] type on identifier and subject,
>>syntax of content
>>
>>Steve,
>>
>>After posting Troy's concerns and thinking about it a bit further, I
>
> am
>
>>not sure that we really need my prior suggestion of the prefix.
>>
>>If we define type="OSIS" on identifier as being the mechanism that
>>allows resolution of osisRefs (see prior post), then why do I need to
>>duplicate the value in type as a prefix in identifier (and by
>
> extension
>
>>subject)?
>>
>>For example:
>>
>><identifier type="ISBN">ISBN:some_number</idetifier> seems to me to be
>>redundant, we already have that information in the type attribute.
>>
>>Noting that if someone uses a type that does not appear in the users
>>manual, they are required to declare a work element that bears an
>>osisWork attribute that matches the type attribute.
>>
>>Example:
>>
>><identifier type="pdurusau.org">some_odd_string</identifier>
>>
>>and there must be a work element that has "pdurusau.org" as its
>
> osisWork
>
>>attribute.
>>
>>Note that Troy reminded me that in osisCore.1.4.1, we did say:
>>
>>
>>>One occurrence (and only one) of the <identifier> element
>>
> should
>
>>have a type of OSIS.
>>
>>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>Steven J. DeRose wrote:
>>
>>>I finally read through this thread, and felt pretty lost for a
>>
> while.
>
>>>A few things I do feel sure of:
>>>
>>>* The colon is really ugly if a prefix is standing alone, like in
>>
> its
>
>>>declaration.
>>>
>>>* Using something like "ISBN" as the type of an <identifier> in a
>>
> <work>
>
>>>implies no claim to authority over the ISBN namespace, or even the
>>>individual ISBN -- no more so that my reading you an ISBN over the
>>
> phone
>
>>>or putting it in a bibliography entry.
>>>
>>>* I think Patrick's solution below for type of ident and subj is ok
>>
> --
>
>>>basically leave it open, but we provide a set of recommended values,
>>
> and
>
>>>those values are reserved to mean what we say (in other words,
>>
> people
>
>>>aren't allowed to say "ISBN" and mean some new scheme they invented
>>>instead.
>>>
>>>* I'm still confused by the meaning of type="OSIS" -- it seems an
>>
> odd
>
>>>usage if it's basically a private-use identifier -- would it make
>>
> more
>
>>>sense to call what Patrick described below, "Local" or "Private" or
>>>"192.168" or something? I'm not going to push hard for that, just
>>>throwing it out in case those who actually understand this portion
>>
> think
>
>>>it makes sense....
>>>
>>>At some point I think we should tie this whole system in to URNs
>>>somehow; but I haven't studied URNs enough to know what it would
>>
> take.
>
>>>S
>>>
>>>At 3:05 PM -0500 10/27/03, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Greetings!
>>>>
>>>>Apparently my post concerning the dropping of enumerated types from
>>>>identifier and subject got lost in the flood of emails on the
>>>
> latest
>
>>>>schema.
>>>>
>>>>Let me make the following suggestion (subject to your comments and
>>>
> my
>
>>>>getting in contact with Steve):
>>>>
>>>>Type on identifier and subject should be xs:string.
>>>>
>>>>Suggested values for the type attribute on identifier and subject
>>>
> will
>
>>>>be enumerated in the users manual.
>>>>
>>>>If "OSIS" is used for type on identifier, the value of the
>>>><identifier> element, that is:
>>>>
>>>><identifier type="OSIS">The_Part_Right_Here</identifier>
>>>>
>>>>then the "The_Part_Right_Here" is the identifier for the work
>>>>represented by that <work> element for purposes of identifying that
>>>>work (whether it is this work or simply a work in the header).
>>>>
>>>>(Todd's general and continuing objection to this suggestion is
>>>
> noted.)
>
>>>>Now, the value to be inside the <identifier> and <subject> elements
>>>
> is
>
>>>>also unconstrained.
>>>>
>>>>Note that best practices recommends that such value:
>>>>"The_Part_Right_Here" should bear a work prefix, that is to say:
>>>>
>>>>Work_Prefix:The_Part_Right_Here
>>>>
>>>>Where the Work_Prefix is defined in a <work> element in the header.
>>>>
>>>>The Work_Prefix is not required but does allow careful users to
>>>
> create
>
>>>>OSIS documents that are self-defining in terms of their identifiers
>>>>and subjects.
>>>>
>>>>This suggestion also avoids the use of the "x-" mechanism in favor
>>>
> of
>
>>>>users defining their work prefixes.
>>>>
>>>>Does this get a chorus of "+1's?"
>>>>
>>>>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>>>>
>>>>Patrick
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Patrick Durusau
>>>>Director of Research and Development
>>>>Society of Biblical Literature
>>>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>>>>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems
>>>
> Interface
>
>>>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>>>
>>>>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>osis-core mailing list
>>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Patrick Durusau
>>Director of Research and Development
>>Society of Biblical Literature
>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>
>>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>osis-core mailing list
>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!