[osis-core] Error on identifier (colon required to match regex)
Troy A. Griffitts
osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:05:21 -0700
Todd,
I'm not really sure about that 'naming authority' issue. I haven't
really thought about it much. My main concern was with the mechanism in
the schema. I need this mechanism to link documents to one another in a
practical and useful way. This is not my new idea. This has been in
the idea ever since <identifier type="OSIS"> was introduced long ago. I
just didn't want to see it fade away.
First thoughts on naming authorities and prefix in the element VALUE
(per se) of <identifier type="OSIS">:
I still don't see a use for the prefix. As stated in my last email,
the only use would possibly be to point to a document that contained a
list of values, but that doesn't especially appeal to me yet.
Forcing the prefix mean you can NEVER point to the above proposed
document because of recursive logic: Hmmm, I have a prefix, let's look
for a work element by that name... Oh, I've found one, let's see what
doc it points to... Hmmm, I have a prefix...
Groups like the FBA can always 'claim' a 'top level domain', and then
can be an authority for the Bibles they control. As stated in the last
email:
FBA.Bible.es.RVR.1960
They would have a legitimate complaint if someone else started using a
unique name beginning with FBA... :)
A more appealing convention might be something like:
Bible.es.FBA.RVR.1960
I would think: Bible.es.RVR.1960 would be just fine without the FBA
anyway. If you have a complaint about the chosen name, you know who to
contact, and can fight it out in a brotherly Christian way, like we
always do :)
There will be TONS of people writing docs (if our vision comes to be)
that will never 'register' their doc with a 'naming authority'. Say, a
pastor who just uses the CCEL tool to put all of his sermons in OSIS so
he can access them in CrossWire's software. He still needs a unique
name so he can reference them from eachother, but he'll probably just do
something like: Griffitts.Troy.Sermon.20031026 Or some other reasonable
naming scheme.
I think my quickly considered conclusion would be that a naming
authority is fine. That's great. I hope large groups like FBA do such
a thing for all of their Bibles. BUT it should never be required.
-Troy.
Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> Troy,
>
> I like what you are saying by having the <identifier> with a type
> attribute value of "OSIS" identify that this is THE identifier that can
> be used programatically. We would need to say in the users manual that
> there should only be one <identifier type="OSIS">.
>
> The next piece is who is the _naming authority_ who is allocating and
> managing translation names that are the value of <identifier
> type="OSIS"> for Bibles? (<identifier
> type="OSIS">osis:Bible.es.RVR.1960</identifier> where the type="OSIS"
> indicates that this is the identifier that should be used
> programatically and the prefix "osis:" indicates that the following
> value is a value allocated/administrated by Bible Technologies.)
>
> I have no objection to Bible Technologies being the _naming authority_
> for Bible translation names. Over the past several months we have not
> shown a unified desire to act in that role. There are advantages in
> having an organized group which a large number of Bible agencies are
> members act as the naming authority. There are also disadvantages.
>
> I think there would be greater advantages if Bible Technologies were to
> be the authority and all of the Bible agencies were to adopt/endorse the
> naming authority.
>
> The question is who would administrate the naming process if Bible
> Technologies takes on that role?
>
> (I would expect that things that are not Bibles that other groups would
> act as the naming authority. Naturally we would have the option to
> consider naming classes of documents on a case by case basis.)
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Todd
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>[mailto:osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of
>>Troy A. Griffitts
>>Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 2:24 AM
>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] Error on identifier (colon required
>>to match regex)
>>
>>
>>Todd,
>> I'm NOT against this organization deciding on unique
>>OSIS IDs for all
>>of their Bibles. I'm all for that.
>>
>> I don't think it matters one way or another if BTG is
>>going to act as
>>an authority for naming.
>>
>> We NEED a way to distinguish all of the identifiers
>>from the ONE
>>identifier we're using to programmatically look up an OSIS
>>document in a
>>library of OSIS documents.
>>
>> I personally don't care about ISBN, or any other type
>>of identifier
>>that we allow. They may be useful for other people, and even
>>my end users.
>>
>> There IS (or was last week) a way for a software system (like
>>CrossWire's) to get unique IDs and speak about unique
>>documents with the
>><identifier type="OSIS"> construct. This must not go away.
>>
>> If you want to add an optional prefix that specifies
>>who decided on the
>>name, that's fine. I don't see any use for it, and forcing
>>it will mean
>>you can NEVER do what I think you see for a use: supply one for the
>><work osisWork="fba"> to point to their canonical list (eternal
>>recursion). You could do the same thing with
>>FBA.Bible.es.RVR.1960 if
>>that's the naming structure they decided. I don't like it, but I can
>>live with either.
>>
>> But I can't live without type="OSIS" to tell me which
>><identifier> is
>>the canonical OSIS name for the document.
>>
>> -Troy.
>>
>>
>>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
>>
>>>Troy and Patrick,
>>>
>>>Yes, the type attribute on <identifier> should be "x-*". Initially
>>>Patrick had made type on <identifier> and not <identifier> itself
>>>osisGenType. It looks like <identifier> is now correct but
>>
>>the type
>>
>>>attribute needs to be fixed.
>>>
>>>The correct form would be:
>>>
>>>
>>
>><identifier>namingAuthorityWorkPrefix:Canonical.Name.Here</identifier>
>>
>>>I had already been talking to the various Bible agencies (in TX and
>>>the
>>>UK) about adopting a common naming structure. Because the Bible
>>>Technologies group is not going to act as a naming authority, I have
>>>proposed that the Forum of Bible Agencies act as a naming
>>
>>authority for
>>
>>>modern Bible translations. I believe that 95% or more of the modern
>>>translations are owned by a member of the Forum of Bible
>>
>>Agencies either
>>
>>>directly or indirectly. If the proposal moves forward then
>>
>>you would
>>
>>>encode something like the following.
>>>
>>><osisText osisIDWork="rvr" ...>
>>> <header>
>>> <work osisWork="rvr">
>>> ...
>>> <identifier>fba:Bible.es.RVR.1960</identifier>
>>> ...
>>> </work>
>>> <work osisWork="fba">
>>> <title>Forum of Bible Agencies Bible Translation
>>>Identifiers</title>
>>> ...
>>> </work>
>>> </header>
>>></osisText>
>>>
>>>The "OSIS" value would no longer be appropriate because the Bible
>>>Technologies group is not acting as the naming authority.
>>>
>>>My hope would be that the Bible translations held by the Bible
>>>agencies who are not members of the Forum of Bible Agencies
>>
>>would also
>>
>>>adopt identifiers allocated by the Forum of Bible Agencies.
>>>
>>>Thoughts?
>>>
>>>Todd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>>[mailto:osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>Troy A. Griffitts
>>>>Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 2:08 PM
>>>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] Error on identifier (colon required
>>>>to match regex)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I believe the 'type' attribute on the 'identifier' element
>>>>should not be
>>>>restricted by 'osisGenType'
>>>>
>>>><identifier type="OSIS">OSIS.Canonical.Name.Here</identifier>
>>>>
>>>>should be allowed and is THE way to unambiguously refer to an
>>>>OSIS document.
>>>>
>>>> -Troy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Patrick Durusau wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Troy,
>>>>>
>>>>>type on identifier is defined as:
>>>>>
>>>>><xs:attribute name="type" type="osisGenType"/>
>>>>>
>>>>>Which calls the regex you mention below.
>>>>>
>>>>>I removed the enumeration of values and replaced it with
>>
>>the regex,
>>
>>>>>which allows you to declare the identifier in a work.
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason for the error is that the regex requires OSIS: and not
>>>>>simply
>>>>>OSIS. The reasoning was that usually an identifier will be
>>>>
>>>>used in a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>number of places with more parts of the identifier
>>>>
>>>>following and so the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>need to enforce the ":" separator.
>>>>>
>>>>>Will this be a problem? Note we get the same behavior with type on
>>>>>subject, i.e., incorrect DEWEY, correct DEWEY:.
>>>>>
>>>>>In a way it does call the user's attention to the proper
>>
>>use of the
>>
>>>>>identifier itself as being identifier + colon.
>>>>>
>>>>>This also requires identifier + colon in Lemma, Morph and
>>>>
>>>>POS, but we
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>are used to seeing them there anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>Comments?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>>>>>
>>>>>Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>>Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey guys. Here's the report on the run of the latest
>>>>
>>>>schema against
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>my latest encoding of the NASB:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[scribe@troyslaptop msv]$ java -jar msv.jar ./osisCore.xsd
>>>>
>>>>./nasb.xml
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>start parsing a grammar. validating ./nasb.xml
>>>>>>Error at line:7, column:45 of
>>>>
>>>>file:///space/home/scribe/msv/./nasb.xml
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> attribute "type" has a bad value: the value does not match the
>>>>>>regular expression
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"((((\p{L}|\p{N}|_)+)(\.(\p{L}|\p{N}|_))*:)((((\p{L})|(\p{N}))
>>>>+)(((\.(\p{L}|\p{N}|_)+)*))?))".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>the document is NOT valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>it fails on this line:
>>>>>> <identifier
>>
>>type="OSIS">Bible.NASB</identifier>
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here's the head of the doc:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>>>>>><osis xmlns="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace"
>>>>>>xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS
>>>>/namespace
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>osisCore.1.9.xsd">
>>>>>> <osisText osisIDWork="nasb" xml:lang="en">
>>>>>> <header>
>>>>>> <work osisWork="nasb">
>>>>>> <title>NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE</title>
>>>>>> <identifier
>>
>>type="OSIS">Bible.NASB</identifier>
>>
>>>>>> <rights>Copyright (C)
>>>>>>1960,1962,1963,1968,1971,1972,1973,1975,1977,1995 by THE LOCKMAN
>>>>>>FOUNDATION</rights>
>>>>>> <refSystem>Bible</refSystem>
>>>>>> </work>
>>>>>> <work osisWork="strongs">
>>>>>> </work>
>>>>>> </header>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><div type="book" osisID="Matt"><title type="main"
>>>>>>subType="x-Book">MATTHEW</title>
>>>>>><chapter osisID="Matt.1"><title type="sub"
>>>>
>>>>subType="x-Chapter">CHAPTER
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>1</title>
>>>>>><title type="sub" subType="x-Section">The Genealogy of Jesus the
>>>>>>Messiah</title>
>>>>>><verse osisID="Matt.1.1"><w lemma="strongs:G976">The <note
>>>>>>type="explanation" osisID="Matt.1.1.note.1"
>>>>
>>>>n="1"></note>record</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1078">of the genealogy</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>lemma="strongs:G2424">of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>><note type="explanation" osisID="Matt.1.1.note.2"
>>>>>>n="2"></note>Jesus</w> <note type="explanation"
>>>>>>osisID="Matt.1.1.note.3" n="3"></note><w
>>
>>lemma="strongs:G5547">the
>>
>>>>>>Messiah</w>, <note type="crossReference" osisID="Matt.1.1.xref.A"
>>>>>>n="A"></note><w lemma="strongs:G5207">the son</w> <w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1160b">of David</w>, <note type="crossReference"
>>>>>>osisID="Matt.1.1.xref.B" n="B"></note><w
>>
>>lemma="strongs:G5207">the
>>
>>>>>>son</w> <w lemma="strongs:G11">of Abraham</w>:
>>>>>><milestone type="line" subType="x-PM"/></verse><verse
>>>>>>osisID="Matt.1.2"><w lemma="strongs:G11">Abraham</w> <note
>>>>>>type="explanation" osisID="Matt.1.2.note.1" n="1"></note><w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1080">was the father</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>lemma="strongs:G2464">of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Isaac</w>, <note type="explanation" osisID="Matt.1.2.note.2"
>>>>>>n="2"></note><w lemma="strongs:G2464">Isaac</w> <w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1080">the father</w> <w lemma="strongs:G2384">of
>>>>>>Jacob</w>, <w lemma="strongs:G2384">and Jacob</w> <w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1080">the father</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>lemma="strongs:G2455">of <note
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>type="explanation" osisID="Matt.1.2.note.3"
>>>>
>>>>n="3"></note>Judah</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G80">and his brothers</w>.
>>>>>></verse><verse osisID="Matt.1.3"><w
>>>>
>>>>lemma="strongs:G2455">Judah</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G1080">was the father</w> <w
>>>>
>>>>lemma="strongs:G5329">of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Perez</w> <w lemma="strongs:G2196">and Zerah</w> <w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G2283">by Tamar</w>, <note type="crossReference"
>>>>>>osisID="Matt.1.3.xref.A" n="A"></note><w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G5329">Perez</w> <w lemma="strongs:G1080">was the
>>>>>>father</w> <w lemma="strongs:G2074">of Hezron</w>, <w
>>>>>>lemma="strongs:G2074">and Hezron</w> <w lemma="strongs:G1080">the
>>>>>>father</w> <w lemma="strongs:G689">of <note type="explanation"
>>>>>>osisID="Matt.1.3.note.1" n="1"></note>Ram</w>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Patrick Durusau wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Guys,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Getting closer all the time!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Note that I have added an enumerated type on <seg> of otPassage.
>>>>>>>That
>>>>>>>allows Troy to avoid default rendering of quotes but also
>>>>
>>>>allows me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>to avoid trying to add another content model when I am
>>>>
>>>>already tired.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>Should Troy's analysis of usage prove accurate, which it
>>
>>very well
>>
>>>>>>>may, we may need to revisit this issue for this type of
>>>>
>>>>passage and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>others. For my part, if "the very stones would cry out,"
>>>>
>>>>the Rolling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>Stones that is, we may need to revisit this issue. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think this is about as close as I can get today.
>>
>>Please run your
>>
>>>>>>>various texts against it and let me know the results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Really do appreciate all the hard work!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Patrick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>
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