[osis-core] OT Quote in NT

[Todd Tillinghast]

Troy and Chris,

Troy, I see the point you are trying to make, but I think that people
writing a transformation to render scripture text will have to make a
special allowance for the cases you are talking about regardless of the
markup.

I think we should add the types Chris suggested to osisQuote and with
those special purpose types in place the encoding need is met.  I don't
think adding more elements will really help anyone, but would only
confuse them.

So for practical purposes consider <q type="otPassage"> to be equivalent
to the new element you would like to add.  Either way encoders and users
will have to look an example, read the schema, or the read the users
manual to know what to do.

I don't think we should create a default value for type on <q>.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
> admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:19 PM
> To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] OT Quote in NT
> 
> Hey Chris,
> 	Thanks for the pertinent, articulate reply.  However, I still
> disagree.
>   Through many ages of English grammar, a QUOTE (") has meant a small
> set of specific things.  I think assigning this traditional meaning of
> the English term QUOTE to our usage of our tag <q> is a wise thing.
> 
> 	The NASB and other Bible translations did not feel that QUOTE
(")
> was
> proper to use for these entities in Scripture, and neither do I.  They
> are a very specific and different thing, and it would not be intuitive
> for an encoder to use <q> for such a thing, as he would think that
using
> <q> would assign an attribute to the text which was more, or rather
> different, than what he wants to assign.
> 
> 	Just to sum up:
> 
> 	I believe that <q> SHOULD always be renderable with QUOTE (", ',
`,
> et.
> al.)
> 
> 	I believe that when literal translations render a segment as
SMALL
> CAPS
> in the New Testament what they feel is a reference or allusions to the
> Old Testament, they assign a meaning that, when one thinks of QUOTE
("),
> is only dangerously in error.
> 
> 
> 	-Troy.
> 
> 
> Chris Little wrote:
> > Troy,
> >
> > We did discuss this and Todd's suggestion is correct.  There's no
> > substantive difference between a writer quoting a speaker and a
writer
> > quoting another written work.  <q> covers spoken quotations, block
> > quotes (we specifically discussed this and decided to collapse
> > <blockquote> into <q>), & written quotations--in other words, any
> > incidence of an external work being copied in part into the work at
hand.
> >
> > You can't blindly render all <q>'s as quotation marks anyway,
because of
> > block quotes, which use <q> but are rendered, instead, with wider
> margins.
> >
> > I think <q> has always been intended for this purpose since 1.1,
when
> > <otPassage> & <ntProphecy> were dropped.
> >
> > Possibly we should add more types to osisQuotes, which currently
> > includes only "block", such as "otPassage", "ntProphecy", "spoken"
(set
> > as the default?), & "written".  We could even add "inscription" to
the
> > enumeration and eliminate the <inscription> element.
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> > Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> >
> >> This is not an _actor_ in the narrative speaking a quote, this the
> >> _author_ citing the Old Testament.  I don't agree with using <q> to
> >> mark anything other than the former.  In fact I strongly disagree
with
> >> your mentioned usage within a commentary.
> >>
> >> I'm using <cite type="OT"></cite> for now, until we decide.  I'm
sure
> >> we've spoken about this.  I had thought it was included in the most
> >> earliest incarnations of OSIS.
> >>
> >>     -Troy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> >>
> >>> Troy,
> >>>
> >>> I don't recall specifically talking about OT quotes in the NT, but
we
> do
> >>> have a clear way to attribute a quote as a quote of scripture (or
any
> >>> other work with a reference system).
> >>>
> >>> With OSIS 2.0 we added osisRef to <q>.  When we added it we were
> talking
> >>> about quotes of scripture within a commentary that are not the
topic
> of
> >>> the commentary (which would be covered by <catchWord> rather than
<q>).
> >>> This seems to be the natural solution to the need you described.
> >>> Further, if the translators want to attribute the quote to the
Greek
> >>> translation of the OT (is this the LXX) they are free to do so.
> (There
> >>> are notes in the CEV everywhere there is a quote of the OT in the
NT
> >>> because the text quoted in the NT is not the same words that
appear in
> >>> the OT and they want to give some indication of why.)
> >>>
> >>> Do you agree that this is the best way to handle an OT quote in
the NT?
> >>>
> >>> Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osis-core mailing list
> > osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
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