[osis-core] Reference that includes the grain portion to a block of text with multiple identifiers in the osisID.

Todd Tillinghast osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
Thu, 15 May 2003 17:21:43 -0600 

Hmmm...

The trouble is that ALL of the osisIDs have equal claim to the block of
text AND in many cases the reason that there are several osisIDs on a
block of text is due to the fact that the text was homogenized, which
means that the text traditionally associated with the last identifier in
the osisID could be the first characters in the block of text.

We should also put this on the agenda for next week.  No need to dwell
on it though.

Of course this only applies to cases where the grain is included in the
osisRef.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
> admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] Reference that includes the grain portion to
a
> block of text with multiple identifiers in the osisID.
> 
> Todd,
> 
> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> 
> >Patrick,
> >
> >How would you form a reference that includes the grain portion for a
> >block of text that has multiple identifiers in the osisID?
> >
> >With osisID="Matt.1.2 Matt.1.3 Matt.1.4" would
osisRef="Matt.1.2@ch14"
> >be the SAME as osisRef="Matt.1.3@ch14"?
> >
> >
> Errr, not sure I understand the issue but let me say it back and see
if
> I am close.
> 
> In other words, we have an element that has a list of osisIDs, in your
> example, a sequential range of verses. And, we want to use osisRef to
> address a particular character from the osisID?
> 
> Seems to me that you have uncovered a weakness in the list osisID or
at
> least a limitation on the use of osisRef in connection with it. For
> addressing purposes, I think you would have to start from the first
> osisID and count inward. I don't see a way to select the second,
third,
> etc., osisID as your starting point because with the list osisID, it
is
> not identified in the text stream. For osisRef, I think you have to
> start from the first osisID, when it is a list.
> 
> Probably should require an error if an osisRef attempts to address
> something other than the first osisID. Problem is that most addressing
> is going to be blind, that is, the user will not know if you have used
> the osisIDs as a list or not. Hmmm, may need to think about that.
> 
> Hope you are having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> >Todd
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
> >>admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> >>Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 3:25 PM
> >>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>Subject: Re: [osis-core] Annotations and Extending the Schema
> >>
> >>Todd,
> >>
> >>Just got back from renting a car to go get Elizabeth tomorrow!
> >>
> >>So the problem is that the osisRef supports up to a range but not
> >>discontiguous references? I am too tired to try right now, maybe
after
> >>dinner, but why not just extend osisRef to allow multiple instances
of
> >>what we have now for osisRef? Need to pick a separator character but
> >>that should do the trick. Lots simpler than the extension you seem
to
> >>
> >>
> >be
> >
> >
> >>proposing.
> >>
> >>Patrick
> >>
> >>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Patrick,
> >>>
> >>>There was a conversation on a Friday (may have been Thursday at the
> >>>time) where we discussed creating behavior similar but different
from
> >>>note for annotations.  I posted two items related to annotations in
> >>>
> >>>
> >late
> >
> >
> >>>February.  I just forwarded them to you.
> >>>
> >>>There has been a lot of discussion around annotations and there
seem
> >>>
> >>>
> >to
> >
> >
> >>>be different requirements than note.  One difference I see (others
> >>>
> >>>
> >may
> >
> >
> >>>have their own perspective) is that a <note> is limited to a single
> >>>osisRef, where an annotation may have several points that it is
> >>>
> >>>
> >"about".
> >
> >
> >>>The idea I posted earlier was to have the following structure
rather
> >>>than "osisRef".
> >>>
> >>><ann>
> >>>	<annotationOf>
> >>>		<reference osisRef="Ps.1.1"/>
> >>>		<reference osisRef="Ps.9.4"/>
> >>>		<!-- and/or possibly some other text -->
> >>>	</annotationOf>
> >>>	main discussion in the same form as a note
> >>></ann>
> >>>
> >>>This structure is obviously better suited for stand off markup.
> >>>
> >>>In any case I was trying to put an example on the issues and needs
> >>>raised related to annotations and found it difficult to extend the
> >>>schema.
> >>>
> >>>Todd
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
> >>>>admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> >>>>Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:32 PM
> >>>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] Extending the Schema
> >>>>
> >>>>Todd,
> >>>>
> >>>>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Patrick,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>To use <xsd:redefine schemaLocation="OSISCore.1.1.1.xsd"> with
> >>>>><xsd:restriction base="SimpleOrComplexType"> within an
> >>>>><xsd:simpleType name="SimpleTypeName"> or <xs:complexType
> >>>>>name="ComplexTypeName"> statement within a schema, you must have
a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>named
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>simple or complex type defined in the base schema to put in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>"base"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>attribute of the <restriction> element.  Currently there are very
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >few
> >
> >
> >>>>>named simple and complex types in the osisCore.1.1.1.xsd schema
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>because
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>they are defined inline (not named).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>It would be more helpful if you could give me a little more detail
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >on
> >
> >
> >>>>what you tried to do. How about sending me just the modification
you
> >>>>wanted to make to the content model of note?
> >>>>
> >>>>The schema already allows for annotations, they are called notes.
> >>>>
> >>>>Hope you are having a great day!
> >>>>
> >>>>Patrick
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I am suggesting that we create named simple an complex types
where
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>they
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>are defined inline.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I was trying to extend the schema to allow for annotations.  The
> >>>>>behavior would be a lot like a note but a little bit different.
I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>also
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>considered the option of a container element fairly near the top
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >that
> >
> >
> >>>>>could hold annotations that reference either content in the same
> >>>>>document or external documents.  In the end I created a totally
new
> >>>>>schema that is a lot like the current schema.  I believe (am not
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >100%
> >
> >
> >>>>>sure) I posted some examples and did not get any response.  (It
may
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>be
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>that I didn't get around to posting anything.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Todd
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
> >>>>>>admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> >>>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 12:18 PM
> >>>>>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>>>>Subject: [osis-core] Extending the Schema
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Todd,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Several posts ago you mentioned needing to extend the OSIS
schema.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>What
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>sort of extension were you trying to perform?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>We can extend the present schema by appending elements to
existing
> >>>>>>content models or adding attributes. Can also do union and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>restriction
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>of simple types but I suspect that is not what you are after.
With
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>substitution group we can replace the entire content model but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >that
> >
> >
> >>>>>>would require a complete re-write of the schema, and not to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >mention,
> >
> >
> >>>>>>inconsistent extension of it. Not necessarily saying no, but
would
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>like
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to know what sort of extensions are needed before picing a final
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>route.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hope you are having a great day!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Patrick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>Patrick Durusau
> >>>>>>Director of Research and Development
> >>>>>>Society of Biblical Literature
> >>>>>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> >>>>>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>osis-core mailing list
> >>>>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>osis-core mailing list
> >>>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Patrick Durusau
> >>>>Director of Research and Development
> >>>>Society of Biblical Literature
> >>>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> >>>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>osis-core mailing list
> >>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>osis-core mailing list
> >>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Patrick Durusau
> >>Director of Research and Development
> >>Society of Biblical Literature
> >>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> >>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>osis-core mailing list
> >>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >osis-core mailing list
> >osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> 
> 
> 
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