[osis-core] RE: Work Issue

Troy A. Griffitts osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:10:24 -0700 

> However, related to Patrick's post, we have defined that an osisID can
> have identifiers from more than one reference system.  When a single
> reference system is used exclusively within osisIDs, then the current
> system of using "osisWork" to identify the THIS <work> element with its
> single reference system works fine.  

good.


> When more than one reference system is used, the current system forces
> the definition of two work elements to represent THIS document (one for
> each prefix used in osisIDs).  If we are going to use multiple reference
> systems within the current document we must allow multiple <refSystem>
> elements within the THIS <work> element.  But if there are multiple
> <refSystem> elements then use of the "osisWork" attribute as a prefix
> becomes ambiguous, and requires that an identifier tied to a specific
> <refSystem> element be used as the prefix that identifies not only which
> reference system but also the THIS <work> element.

....

> If you believe that the prefix for identifiers in osisIDs NEED NOT be
> related to the THIS <work> element then this discussion would take on a
> different flavor related to what those other <work> elements mean.  This
> may be where we are on different pages.

Yes.  I also think this is where we differ.  The <refSystem> in THIS 
work element is ONLY to define the default reference system used in 
osisID's in this work.  It does not state ANYTHING else, including, but 
not limitted to:

this work includes ALL of this reference system
this work DEFINES this reference system
this work has no references outside of this reference system
this work has no references to any other reference system


It is ONLY the default.

	Do you agree?  Or probably better... could you agree? :)

		-Troy.






> 
> Todd
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org
> [mailto:osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Troy A.
> Griffitts
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:13 PM
> To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] RE: Work Issue
> 
> I think the misunderstanding here is seen in the statement by Todd:
> 
> "In Toronto we determined that when resolving a reference that ALL of 
> the elements in the <work> element in the referring document must be 
> present in the THIS <work> element of the document being referred to."
> 
> First, I'm a little confused by this statement.  What elements are you 
> talking about?  This doesn't make any sense if you really mean ALL. 
> Maybe you mean just all the <identifier> subelements?
> 
> <refSystem> is one subelement that definitely would not fit in this 
> rule-- in my opinion, unless I'm missing something.
> 
> <refSystem> merely defines the default reference system that WE'RE using
> 
> in regard to this work.  In the THIS work element, it specifies my 
> default ref system (in both my self-identifying osisID's and also any 
> self-referencing osisRef's); in other work elements, it specifies the 
> default ref system I'M using when targetting this work with an osisRef.
> 
> I'm still not sure I understand the problem.
> 
> 	-Troy.
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Durusau wrote:
> 
>>Todd,
>>
>>The problem is there is no such thing as an NASB text that also has a 
>>Hebrew Bible reference system. Since one does not exist, why are you 
>>pressing for this ability? Mappings between reference systems should
> 
> be 
> 
>>handled in software systems and not markup.
>>
>>I can almost see your last example, for Harry where Augustine has more
> 
> 
>>than one historical reference system but in that case you just declare
> 
> 
>>both editions and use two different osisRefs to indicated the
> 
> different 
> 
>>editions.
>>
>>This is not a problem that really exists anywhere. If you want to do 
>>mapping, do it at the software level and leave markup out of it. All
> 
> you 
> 
>>need for mapping is a single declaration of what text this "is" and if
> 
> 
>>you have a map for that edition of that work, all is well.
>>
>>Let me say it back to you: You want to have the ability to say that a 
>>particular part of a text is known by different reference systems and
> 
> to 
> 
>>indicate in markup, the citation of that text in each of those
> 
> reference 
> 
>>systems. Is that fairly close?
>>
>>So to use your example why can't I say:
>>
>><verse osisID="nasb:Ps.1.1><reference osisRef="nasb2:Ps.1.2"/>
>>
>>Get the same results, unnecessary though I think they are, without
> 
> changing the present schema.
> 
>>Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In Toronto we determined that when resolving a reference that ALL of
>>
> the
> 
>>>elements in the <work> element in the referring document must be
>>
> present
> 
>>>in the THIS <work> element of the document being referred to.  
>>>
>>>REFERING DOCUMENT:
>>><osisText>
>>>	<header>
>>>		<work osisWork="nasb">
>>>			<title>NASB</title>
>>>			<refSystem>Bible.Hebrew</refSystem>
>>>		</work>
>>>	</header>
>>>	<div>
>>>		<reference osisRefs="nasb:Ps.1.2"/>
>>>	</div>
>>></osisText>
>>>
>>>
>>>TARGET DOCUMENT - CURRENT SCHEMA
>>>This is a matching document because the THIS <work> has the only
>>>required <work> element, "<title>NASB</title>", but multiple THIS
>>
> <work>
> 
>>>elements must be declared in order to provide for the multiple
>>
> reference
> 
>>>systems.
>>>
>>><osisText osisWorkID="nasbFirstCopy">
>>>	<header>
>>>		<work osisWork="nasbFirstCopy">
>>>			<title>NASB</title>
>>>			<creator>some text</creator>
>>>			... more meta data ....
>>>			<refSystem>Bible.NASB</refSystem>
>>>		</work>
>>>		<work osisWork="nasbSecondCopy">
>>>			<title>NASB</title>
>>>			<creator>some text</creator>
>>>			... more meta data ....
>>>			<refSystem>Bible.Hebrew</refSystem>
>>>		</work>		
>>>	</header>
>>>	<div>
>>>		<verse osisID="nasbFirstCopy:Ps.1.1
>>>nasbSecondCopy:Ps.1.2
>>>	</div>
>>></osisText>
>>>
>>>Notice that the THIS <work> element must be stated twice but can only
>>
> be
> 
>>>indicated once (using osisWorkID in <osisText>).  The valid reference,
>>>stated above, to this document can not be used due to the deficiency
>>
> of
> 
>>>the schema.  Both supported reference systems must be allowed to be
>>>children of the SINGLE THIS <work> element.  
>>>
>>>
>>>TARGET DOCUMENT - PROPOSED SCHEMA
>>><osisText osisWorkID="nasb">
>>>	<work>
>>>		<title>NASB</title>
>>>		<creator>some text</creator>
>>>		... more meta data ....
>>>		<refSystem id="nasb>Bible.NASB</refSystem>
>>>		<refSystem id="Hebrew">Bible.Hebrew</refSystem>
>>>	</work>	
>>>	<header>
>>>	</header>
>>>	<div>
>>>		<verse osisID="nasb:Ps.1.1 hebrew:Ps.1.2
>>>	</div>
>>></osisText>
>>>
>>>In this case the single <work> element that details THIS document has
>>>more than one reference system.  Now when the reference identifies a
>>>matching document based on the match of the needed child elements of
>>>THIS <work>, the appropriate reference system can be selected from the
>>>SINGLE <work> element that represents THIS work.
>>>
>>>Does this help clear things up?
>>>
>>>Todd
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>[mailto:osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick
>>>Durusau
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:05 PM
>>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] RE: Work Issue
>>>
>>>Troy,
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm not clear on exactly what problem we're trying to solve.
>>>>
>>>>No prefix means my default ref system (the refSystem inside my own 
>>>>work entry), prefix means lookup the work in the header and use it's 
>>>>refsystem, right?  This is true for both osisID's and osisRef's,
>>>
> isn't
> 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>it?
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's what I think but cf. Todd's response and earlier posts. I am 
>>>really trying to understand the problem Todd sees but quite honestly I
>>
> 
>>>have not gotten there. Even in a long conversation in Toronto.
>>>
>>>Patrick
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>   -Troy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>osis-core mailing list
>>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Patrick Durusau
>>Director of Research and Development
>>Society of Biblical Literature
>>pdurusau@emory.edu
>>Co-Editor, ISO Reference Model for Topic Maps
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
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