[osis-core] ccel OSIS docs
Harry Plantinga
osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:23:39 -0500
Todd,
There are new versions of the OSIS docs on the CCEL server
that identify "Bible:" as
<work osisWork="Bible">
<title>New Revised Standard Version</title>
<identifier type="OSIS">Bible.NRSVA</identifier>
</work>
Thanks for pointing out this lack. Unfortuantely, the
revised docs did not make it onto the CD-Rom.
Also, the XMetaL tools for OSIS on the CD-Rom are for
osisCore.1.1. They have been revised for osisCore.1.1.1
in the version available from the web server. They have
include a schema with regexps excised.
Once again, the URL is http://www.ccel.org/osis
-Harry
> Harry,
>
> >From reading a few of your documents yesterday I noticed the
> following
> things (I would have written last night but all IP contact
> with the world was lost but magically is working again this morning):
>
> OSISIDS
> 1) The values in the osisIDs seem valid. This largely
> because you are defining your own reference system for each work.
>
> 2) I the documents I looked at I did not see any cases where
> you used a work identifier in an osisID. If you have a
> specific document in which you did this I would be happy and
> interested to look at it.
>
> 3) In order for a reference to be created into your documents
> there must be a way to identify which work we are talking
> about. (This is where the ambiguity starts. The issue is
> when do we use <identifier type="OSIS"> and when do we use
> <referenceSystem> to create the fully qualified identifier.
> I will attempt a full treatment of the topic in another
> email.) None of your documents I looked at have either an
> <identifier type="OSIS"> or a <referenceSystem> element within <work>.
>
> For example in calvin_calcom8.xml for osisID="xiv.i.p7" the
> work alias "calvin_calcom08" is specified by default by
> osisIDWork="calvin_calcom08", but it is not possible to
> create a fully qualified name because there is not
> <identifier type="OSIS">Identifer.Of.The.Work</identifier> in
> the <work> element.
>
> The document is technically correct but for the type of
> document it is, it should have an <identifier type="OSIS">.
> I argued for having <identifier type="OSIS"> being required
> but Patrick pointed out that a pastor might want to simply
> encode his sermon for his own purposes and not be bothered
> with creating <identifier>s that no one would use because his
> sermons would never be referenced. In the case of these
> documents, I would think that they would be referenced.
>
> OSISREFS
> All of the cases of <reference> elements I saw were scripture
> references, if there is a document with other references let
> me know and I will look at them. I think we may have arrived
> upon another ambiguity here again because of the special case
> of "Bible" being the default reference work.
>
> In general the "prefix" to an identifier in an osisRef would
> have to be defined as a <work> in the header.
>
> <work osisWork="kjv">
> <identifier type="OSIS">Bible.KJV</identifier>
> </work>
> ....
> <reference osisRef="kjv:Ps.42.2"/>
>
> and the "fully qualified form" would be "Bible.KJV:Ps.42.2".
>
> It would be incorrect to encode the fully qualified form in
> the osisRef as in <reference osisRef="Bible.KJV:Ps.42.2"/>.
> (Note it would be valid to use to the same value for the
> osisWork attribute in <work> as the value of <identifier type="OSIS">)
>
> However, we have said that the default osisRefWork="Bible"
> and that in this special case encoders do not have to define
> a corresponding <work> element in the header. This allows
> <reference osisID="Ps.42.2"/> to have the "fully qualified
> form or "Bible:Ps.42.2".
>
> The sticky thing with your documents is that you have put a
> "work alias" in your osisRef values without declaring a
> matching <work> element in the header. But you used "Bible"
> which is the special case that is not required to have a
> <work> element because it is the default for osisRefWork.
>
> The trouble I see is that people will be looking to your
> documents for guidance of how to encode other things and will
> assume they can encode <reference
> osisRef="Bible.KJV:Ps.42.2"/> because they saw <reference
> osisRef="Bible:Ps.42.2"/> in your document with no matching
> <work> element in the header.
>
> It would seem better to encode either <reference
> osisID="Ps.42.2"/> and not create a <work> element in the
> header OR <reference osisID="bible:Ps.42.2"/> and define a
> work element in the header.
>
> The issue that is still at large (will post more later) is
> whether to use the <referenceSystem> and/or <identifier
> type="OSIS"> to derive the "fully qualified name" in the
> various cases where they are present alone and both present.
>
> Is this consistent with everyone else's understanding?
>
> Comments?
>
> Todd
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:owner-osis-
> > core@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Harry Plantinga
> > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 5:54 AM
> > To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > Subject: RE: [osis-core] Ambiguity regarding <work> and when to use
> > <identifier type="OSIS"> and <referenceSystem> and which is
> required.
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > I have not paid that much attention to referenceSystems as
> yet. I've
> > used osisIDs and osisRefs like Bible:Matt.1.1 and I've used
> osisIDs as
> > I was previously using IDs in ThML -- i.e. on almost all elements.
> >
> > I have this as an example header:
> >
> > <osisText osisIDWork="suso_wisdom">
> > <header>
> > <revisionDesc><date>2002-11-15</date><p>Original OSIS 1.1
> > version</p>
> > </revisionDesc>
> > <work osisWork="suso_wisdom">
> > <title>A Little Book of Eternal Wisdom</title>
> > <contributor role="x-Markup">Jon Van Howegen</contributor>
> > <creator subType="ccel" role="aut">suso</creator>
> > <creator subType="file-as" role="aut">Suso, Henry
> > (1295-1366)</creator>
> > <creator subType="short-form" role="aut">Henry Suso</creator>
> > <subject subType="ccel">Practical; Miscellaneous; </subject>
> > <subject subType="LCCN">BV5080 .S813</subject>
> > <subject subType="lcsh1">Practical theology</subject>
> > <subject subType="lcsh2">Practical religion. The Christian
> > life</subject>
> > <subject subType="lcsh3">Mysticism</subject>
> > <date type="Created" calendarType="ISO">1910-04-14</date>
> > <publisher>Burns, Oates, & Washbourne Ltd.,
> London</publisher>
> > <type>Text.Monograph</type>
> > <format subType="IMT">text/xml</format>
> > <identifier subType="URL">/ccel/suso/wisdom.html</identifier>
> > <language>en</language>
> > <rights>Public Domain</rights>
> > </work>
> >
> > Then, in the document, I have like this:
> >
> > <div divType="x-div1" divTitle="Preface" n="ii" osisID="ii">
> > <title type="x-h1" osisID="ii.p0.1">A Little Book of
> Eternal Wisdom
> > </title>
> >
> > Ugly isn't it?
> >
> > -Harry
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > > [mailto:owner-osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org] On
> Behalf Of Todd
> > > Tillinghast
> > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:40 PM
> > > To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > > Subject: RE: [osis-core] Ambiguity regarding <work> and
> when to use
> > > <identifier type="OSIS"> and <referenceSystem> and which is
> > > required.
> > >
> > >
> > > Harry,
> > >
> > > Are any of you documents to the point where we could use
> a couple of
> > > them as examples regarding the issue with <identifier
> type="OSIS">
> > > and <referenceSystem>?
> > >
> > > If you have a text that uses values in osisID and osisRef
> attributes
> > > that use both the defaults and other works, then we would
> not need
> > > to construct an example.
> > >
> > > I attempted to access you OSIS library online but it seems to be
> down.
> > >
> > > Sorry for the possible complication regarding the release of your
> > > documents, if I know that you had a deadline of today I
> would have
> > > worked harder to get with Troy earlier this week and bring this
> > > beast to the forefront. (We started the attempt to call
> each other
> > > a week ago an finally connected
> yesterday.)
> > >
> > > I believe that whatever the resolution, that if you
> ALWAYS include
> > > BOTH a <identifier type="OSIS"> and a <referenceSystem>
> element with
> > > IDENTICAL values for ALL works then your encodings will
> be correct
> > > regardless of the final interpretation. This however
> presumes that
> > > it is correct for the two values to be identical. Given you
> > > position on such things I doubt that it will be a
> problem. (Troy,
> > > do you agree?)
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> [mailto:owner-osis-
> > > > core@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Todd Tillinghast
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:10 PM
> > > > To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [osis-core] Ambiguity regarding <work> and when to
> use
> > > > <identifier type="OSIS"> and <referenceSystem> and which is
> > > required.
> > > >
> > > > Yes there is no change needed for the schema, but there
> could be
> > > > implications regarding how you encode the child
> elements of <work>
> > > > elements.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> [mailto:owner-osis-
> > > > > core@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 12:05 PM
> > > > > To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [osis-core] Ambiguity regarding <work> and
> > > when to use
> > > > > <identifier type="OSIS"> and <referenceSystem> and which is
> > > required.
> > > > >
> > > > > Concerning Todd's comments... Our conversation was more
> > > concerning
> > > > the
> > > > > INTERPRETATION of the markup, than syntax. Don't be
> > > concerned about
> > > > > syntax changes for the schema.
> > > > >
> > > > > Concerning:
> > > > >
> > > > > <identifier type="OSIS">
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought we had unofficially agree to use things like:
> > > > > Bible.KJV.MyEdition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or at least keep things in a 'class'-like structure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Harry, I would think if you want to have hard links to your
> docs,
> > > you
> > > > > are more than welcome to include:
> > > > >
> > > > > <identifier type="CCEL">
> > > > >
> > > > > But I wouldn't use type="OSIS" for the URLs that Todd has
> pointed
> > > out
> > > > > that you are using.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Troy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> > > > > > All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Troy and I spoke on the phone yesterday afternoon regarding
> the
> > > use
> > > > of
> > > > > > the values in <identifier type="OSIS"> and
> > > <referenceSystem> with
> > > > work.
> > > > > > He and I had differing understandings about which are
> > > required in
> > > > what
> > > > > > cases, and how they are used to resolve the full
> > > meaning of values
> > > > in
> > > > > > osisID and osisRef attributes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Troy is composing a set of examples to make clear what seems
> not
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > clear, and hopefully for us as a group to come to a common
> > > > > > understanding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harry, two concerns regarding releasing the CD for
> > > distribution at
> > > > the
> > > > > > meeting next week.
> > > > > > 1) If the way you have encoded <work> elements is
> inconsistent
> > > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > standard. Then there will be a large number of documents in
> > > > circulation
> > > > > > with encoding that is inconsistent with the standard.
> > > (This is of
> > > > > > course no reflection on your encoding but upon the
> > > ambiguity that
> > > > > > currently exists.)
> > > > > > 2) I noticed in past encodings that you have put a
> value like
> > > > > > http://www.ccel..... for the value of <identifier
> type="OSIS">.
> > > > > > Although the standard does not specify the form of this
> > > value, it
> > > > would
> > > > > > leave the door open for the future to encode things without
> the
> > > > > > http://www.ccel.org and simply create an identifier
> > > that does not
> > > > imply
> > > > > > a transport or website.
> > > > > > 3) The use of a reference to
> > > > > > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.1.1.1.xsd to
> > > specify the
> > > > > > schema rather than a reference to a local copy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think any of these issues will cause
> > > significant effort to
> > > > > > correct but will make for examples that we would want people
> to
> > > > follow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Based on today's email I understand you are under a
> > > deadline and I
> > > > hope
> > > > > > that there is still time to make necessary adjustments. I
> think
> > > we
> > > > > > would all agree that it would be preferred for the
> > > sample CD to be
> > > > > > consistent with what the standard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Todd
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>