[osis-core] Proposed works syntax

[Harry Plantinga]

Patrick,

As I understand it, there are a couple of different models on the table.
(I'm going
to assume the osisWork and osisID are in the same attribute; translate if
necessary.)

Proposal A:

For osisWork:osisID, osisWork is one of a pre-defined set of standards, such
as
"bible.lxx.spanish", or an extension, x-whatever-you-please.  If the latter
case,
x-whatever-you-please, you have to have in the header:
<work osisWork="x-whatever-you-please">.

Is that a correct understanding of your proposal?

Proposal B:

osisWork is an internal ID with no external meaning.  osisWork always has to
be defined in a <work osisWork=".."> header element. If it is an externally
defined
standard osisID schema, it woudl have to be specified in the <work> element.

Advantages of B as I see it:
  1.  you don't have to update the schema for new standardized osisID
schemes
  2. you can use short internal osisWork ids, such as "conf" instead of
      "x-augustine-confessions.pusey"
  3. you can use elements in the <work> element to say what language you
      want, what edition, etc. You don't have to encode all that into a dot-
      delimited osisWork id.

Advantages of A:
  1. can validate standard osisID schemes from a list of legal names.
  2. it's not necessary to add a <work> element to the header for
      standardized schemes

-Harry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Durusau" <pdurusau@emory.edu>
To: <osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [osis-core] Proposed works syntax


> Harry,
>
> I am working on a somewhat longer post to try to summarize some of these
> issues but wanted to be sure I understood what you are proposing.
>
> Harry Plantinga wrote:
>
> >>Seriously, the purpose of <work> is to allow an osisWork attribute to
> >>reference a value, much like castList allows a reference to
> >>particular role.
> >>
> >>What I was trying to say was:
> >>
> >><verse work="bible.lxx" osisID="some reference in LXX">blah,
blah</verse>
> >>
> >
> >I thought we were considering a collapsing that to a single attribute,
> >with an optional namespace-like prefix for teh work identifier, like
this:
> >
> ><verse osisID="bible.lxx:someReference"> ??
> >
> I think it is doable, but note that while we can specify values for the
> work portion, validation is not a possibility if you want to use
datatypes.
>
> Reason? If you want to say, bible.lxx:, bible.nrsva: are OK plus
> Book.chapter.verse, you have to use the patterns in XML schema. That
> means that you can't call another set of values, like an enumerated list
> that a user could extend, to be part of the pattern expression.
>
> If validation of the syntax is limited to its form (in other words, not
> content) then what you suggest (which I think is the latest suggestion)
> is certainly possible.
>
> >
> >
> >I thought <isbn> <issn> <url> might be a little more straightforward
> >than <identifier type="ISBN"> etc, but either is OK with me. I was
> >just concerned that people would use identifier types inconsistently.
> >Maybe we should specify a few and use the x-extension syntax.
> >
> Would not be a problem to put together. Will take a look around and
> suggested types are welcome.
>
> >
> >>So what I am trying to do is provide a way to specify what is meant by
> >>"bible.lxx" when it appears as a attribute in <work>. Would this not
> >>give us a way in the initial release to specify several bible.***
> >>systems of reference? Or any others for that matter? (Extending your
> >>suggestion and may be way off base so please correct.)
> >>
> >
> >What I'm not sure about is how you would use the above system to say:
> >
> >"I want an american english version of the KJV" -- where do you say
> >that it shoudl be a generic "bible"?
> >
> In the header there is a language element is where I would specify
> language (as well as an optional lang attribute on elements).
>
> >
> >"I want any edition of the bible.lxx" where bible.lxx is one of those
> >standardized osisID schemes we've discussed. Do I have to know a title,
> >publisher, author to fill in?  Or is there somewhere that I can use
> >a generic osisID scheme name such as bible.lxx, which is defined outside
> >this document?
> >
> >What were the other fancy kinds of bible version specifications from
> >Rome that I recall someone enumerating on this list some time ago. How
> >woudl they work?  E.g. suppose I want a bible (any bible) in American
> >English. I suppose I would use <language>en-us</language> but where
> >to I say "a bible, any bible"?
> >
> Are you saying that I should be able to say (not in syntax but hopefully
> clear)
>
> osisRef - give me Matt.1.1 but only from any English translation? or
> from a particular translation?
>
> Wouldn't that be defined in the header (with some improvements) as I
> have suggested? In other words, if you have in the header:
>
> <work osisWork="bible.nrsva">etc.
>
> osisRef="Matt.1.1" (assuming work defaults from an attribute on
> osisText) mean any Matt.1.1 that is using bible.nrsva as a reference
system.
>
> If you wanted to specify that your references are to a particular edition:
>
> <work osisWork="bible.nrsva.niv">etc.
>
> osisRef="Matt.1.1" is defaulting to pointing only at an NIV translation,
> although the software could fall back to some other NRSVA edition
>
> Or even to a particular language:
>
> <work osisWork="bible.nrsva.niv.spanish:>etc.
>
> I think the problem is and one of the reason I suggested splitting up
> most of this into attributes is what happens if someone wants to skip
> part of the expression? I don't care about NSRVA or NIV but want
> bible.spanish as my osisWork. Not unreasonable but virtually impossible
> to validate with datatyping.
>
> Now, if we abandon datatyping altogether, user has an example syntax and
> if they follow it, other OSIS applications will be able to find their
> materials, don't follow and it won't,   then that is an entirely
> different story.
>
> Maybe the problem is that I keep seeing it as a datatyping problem.
>
> >
> >I think we need some way of tying a <work> to a pre-defined osisID
> >scheme. That was the purpose of my proposed additional attribute to
> >specify an externally defined osisID scheme such as bible.lxx or
> >josephus or augustine_confessions.pusey
> >
> No problem with referencing an outside scheme.
>
>  From an earlier post you made today:
>
> <work refWork="LXX"><osisWork>bible.lxx</osisWork></work> would give us a
> way of saying "I want to use the osisID scheme of bible.lxx" without
> identifying a title, author, publisher, etc.
>
>
> I think what is also unclear to me is why user's should be able to or
> able to avoid doing author/title/publisher/etc.?
>
> Either they want to specify a reference system (some of which will be
> predefined with that sort of information) or not. If someone is going
> outside a defined set, I don't understand the reluctance to force them
> to provide some minimal information about it. (I may be mis-reading your
> post completely  so please correct if I have run off into the weeds.)
>
> Not sure what the refWork (which I have renamed in the schema to be
> osisWork  to be consistent with our other usage) gains you in addition
> to <osisWork>bible.lxx</osisWork>
>
> I would just say: <work osisWork="bible.lxx">, etc. and end with
> whatever (if any) other information you wanted to include.
>
> Could even have: <work osisWork="bible.lxx"/>, with osisWorkType (the
> type of the attribute value) being one of our extensible attribute
> lists. The value in osisText of osisWork should match one of those
> values or with the "x=" extension.
>
>
> I think we are getting a little closer!
>
> Patrick
>