[bt-devel] RE: UTF-8 and new module classes

[Joachim Ansorg]

Hi Fred!

I like the idea to do it with the install manager.
Please submit this as a new item in the feature request tracker.


BTW: Martin, why have you closed the installmanager feature requiests?

Thanks,
Joachim

> As possible fonts are needed only for specific languages or language
> groups, could installation of needed fonts be an installmgr function?
> Install mgr could check to see if the correct font is installed when
> installing a module, and then offer to download it and install it.
>
> This way we would be able to support any module with specal font
> requirements that is added to crosswire without having to add the font to
> the bibletime installation rpm or tar files.
>
> Fred
>
> Tim Brodie wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martin Gruner" <mg.pub@gmx.net>
> > Subject: Re: [bt-devel] RE: UTF-8 and new module classes
> >
> > > > When someone does hardcopy publishing, part of the mandate of the
> > > > publisher is the selection of the look and feel of the document.
> > > > The publisher selects paper, fonts, art, etc which becomes as
> > > > much an important part of the document as the word content.
> > > >
> > > > Is it not also in our mandate to provide a BT "look and feel",
> > > > which is part of the publishing of the modules?
> > >
> > > Well, I personally have to disagree here. We are not using hardcopy,
> > > but rather electronic documents. There is no paper, art, and as far as
> > > I know
> >
> > no
> >
> > > module-specific font yet. The purpose of tools like bt is to work with
> > > the module, not basically to present it. The user should have the
> > > choice when
> >
> > it
> >
> > > comes to fonts.
> >
> > I realize that there is a difference between publishing on a computer
> > and publishing in the printed media.  Isn't the intent of the sword
> > library to provide information?  When I look at the output from sword
> > right now, all I see is text.  Text is not presentation.  BT is providing
> > the presentation.
> >
> > I'm also speaking to my direct experience with BT in the linux world.
> > In my current environment (Mandrake 8.0 fresh install), I can see
> > the greek texts, but have no way to increase their font size.  I have
> > to try to deal with the issue of fonts (as a limited compentent user)
> > when we could easily install a reasonable base set of these for the user
> > (if there is nothing available).
> >
> > > > What I mean by
> > > > this is we could select a specific unicode set for each of the
> > > > modules such that all of the modules 'work' together and give
> > > > an artistically pleasing result.
> > >
> > > I do not get what you are saying here, please help me understand.
> >
> > When I install the PC Study Bible product, they provide a greek
> > and hebrew font set for the interlinear texts.  These fonts are
> > truetype, and enable the user to cut/paste to other applications.
> > The fonts are also very attractive, and enhance the look and feel
> > of the software.
> >
> > A cruddy font can make an otherwise sharp piece of software look
> > amateurish.  Also, a good font can make a good piece of software
> > look even better.  It's about perception.
> >
> > > > If the end-user decides to install other fonts and select them
> > > > (instead of our defaults), the facility is present in BT.  But
> > > > the user really should feel this unnecessary.  The only real
> > > > adjustment that would typically be desired would be the point
> > > > size, as the most common desktop variable will be the screen size.
> > >
> > > No. Example: I have a greek module with a fontspecific encoding. I want
> > > to copy text into another app. No problem. But if I want to share the
> >
> > document I
> >
> > > created, each user will have to install this particular font. No
> >
> > flexibility.
> >
> > > Fonts should not matter, they are just descriptions of how the
> > > individual letters should be rendered on the screen. But they should
> > > not decide which letter to render (as happens in fontspecific
> > > encodings). If you use
> >
> > another
> >
> > > font the doc will be messed up.
> > > If there are reasonable standards, why not use them?
> >
> > I'm not suggesting a different direction than you, only facilitating
> > it with a good installation.  Whatever you use to provide a font
> > selection, can we not provide a font to install that will enable BT
> > to look good "out of the box"?
> >
> > > > Example, if we present a non-latin module, most end-users will
> > > > not have a font that will necessarily present the module in
> > > > a pleasing way.  We should provide the necessary font so that
> > > > this module doen't look out of character with the rest of the
> > > > modules installed.
> > > >
> > > > The reasoning: I am not a greek, but I use the greek modules for
> > > > study and so the fonts are not on my system.  Or I am studying
> > > > a German text but my machine is not really set up for a german
> > > > locale and thus doesn't present the text well.  Why should I
> > > > (as an end-user) care about all of this when really all I want
> > > > to do is to study the module?
> > >
> > > The solution is to make it in a way so that you will not have to
> > > install
> >
> > any
> >
> > > font. You just need one iso8859-7 font (greek encoding) that you
> > > prefer.
> >
> > And if sword provides a module for a "snorgle" New Testament ("snorgle"
> > being some new language translation), how will the end user actually
> > display the text?  I don't have any font... I now have to spend
> > significant time/energy trying to find it when the folks putting together
> > the new sword module obviously have one (at least to test).
> >
> > > bibletime will then use your existing font to display the module.
> > > Otherwise you might have to install 2 different fonts for 2 different
> >
> > greek
> >
> > > modules.
> >
> > Perhaps, but most likely we could standardize on some base iso's for
> > all the existing texts and install these during the installation program.
> > The user will always be free to use something else, and we don't need
> > to crash over an iso that is already established by the user.
> >
> > Tim